Are 3.2 Carrerras really worse than Civics in every phase of driving?

[Kidasters]

PML - if you want an 8-15K hobby car, you are looking in the wrong place.

All I can think of in that range is a Fox body mustang. Or something that is really rusty.

If you want one in that range, expect work. My 84 was 7500. I've put a ton of work into it.

New alternator
Reconditioned fuel injectors
all new hoses
new plugs/plug wires
new cylinder head temp sensor
new heater hoses
all new interior - carpets and trim (except for seats)
rebuilt autoheat module
all reconditioned instruments from NHS w/ LED upgrade
Re-wrapped steering wheel
New windshield
targa body stiffeners
re-built targa top from Dan
All new windshield gaskets
New door pockets
new door pocket tops
Wevo coupler
Factory short shift kit
seine gate shifter
new trunk carpet
rennline blower cover
rennline strut brace
new sylvania headlights
new sugar scoop inserts
new turn signal lights - front and rear
new paint - guards red
new bbs wheels
new tires

and I will probably have the engine rebuilt this year.


So - you can buy a 30 K car and do nothing, or you can buy a 7500 car and put some money in it. Up to you.

[nickyclyde]

My dd is a 1990 vw vanagon , wouldn't be seen in a civic. If you are my friend with a civic , I'll drive

[nicfranc]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

Mitch,

I guess I'm not interested paying new car prices for a 25 year old DIY hobby car.
When I buy a DIY hobby car, I pay DIY hobby car prices.
If the car was $8k-$15k it would make more sense.
But, at $30-$50k, there is a huge "who's the sucker at the table?" element at play,
when you consider the dozens of substitute goods you could get for that price point.
Yea, I guess that sums it up.

It may be hard for some to understand, and that's ok.
It is not possible to share an irrational passion for something I do not own.
Not much different than single people who don't know the joys of parenthood.

Hey, I bought my 1980 911 for $8,000 last year and it runs like a swiss watch.
Maybe you just don't know where to look.

Just because it is not on E-Bay or Craig's List does not mean there are not great 911's out there in the $8k to $15k range.
These cars are not just going to fall in your lap.
If you really want one you are going to have to get out and look.
Or just keep your eyes open till the planets align and you get lucky.

Most of the 911 owners on this forum work on their own cars and that helps create good deals when buying their 911's. The skills they have honed from years of experience help them to make their own luck.
and yes this forum is special in that the members genuinely care for one another and their cars.
I don't know of any other car forum where members send tools half way around the globe to help fellow owners.
It's a Band of Brothers and if you buy a 911 you will be welcomed into the club and have all the years experience of some very knowledgable
Porsche owners at your finger tips.

Why do I love these cars ?.........well I am an old VW guy.... it's only natural.
Love these cars and love the people who are so generous with their time and knowledge on this forum.

Good luck with your search.

[Mitch1]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

Mitch,

I guess I'm not interested paying new car prices for a 25 year old DIY hobby car.
When I buy a DIY hobby car, I pay DIY hobby car prices.
If the car was $8k-$15k it would make more sense.
But, at $30-$50k, there is a huge "who's the sucker at the table?" element at play,
when you consider the dozens of substitute goods you could get for that price point.
Yea, I guess that sums it up.

It may be hard for some to understand, and that's ok.
It is not possible to share an irrational passion for something I do not own.
Not much different than single people who don't know the joys of parenthood.

I think you can get an SC in descent shape for 15k. I bought mine for 15. You could probably get a Ferrari 308 GTB around 20 to 25k. Maintenance expense on those are probably considerably more than a 911 though.
If a 3.2 is running 20+ than that's simply supply and demand. You'd also rest easy to know you could get your purchase price back out of it.
I've always loved the 911. Ever since I was a kid. I saw some Road & Track article about the new 911 in 84. They were testing a black 84 in the snow. I was hooked at 15. I kept an Automobile magazine from 87 that showed the 1st 911 factory slant nose. (that same car was on EBay not to long ago).
I don't mind if someone thinks a Honda Civic is a better car. They are good cars. But I love 912's too. It's not a performance machine. It's just cool.

[alfisti]

I paid $12,500 for my '87 Carrera. It had 224k miles on the odometer, a 10 foot paint job, slightly tired interior (but presentable).



I had a PPI done which identified what looks to be a sound motor with lots of life left, great transmission, spotless underbody, zero rust, and just a great drive. Second day it had $1k out into it to do turbo tie rods, CV joints, oil change, and a couple of other things. I have tinkered with a bunch of little things in the garage as well. All together I am still under $15k.



I have put 2,000 miles on it (in about 7 weeks) and love every SECOND I am in this car. I bought it to drive it hard and really experience it, and I have been happier than a mental patient with a butterfly net.



My advice to you PML is to STOP READING, STOP POSTING, AND GO OUT AND BUY ONE. Since you clearly have analysis paralysis, put a time limit on it. Give yourself 2 weeks to pick one from the many available, and just buy one..it is all a risk, and if you are not a risk taker, drop the idea completely. If you are a risk taker, then just buy one already. This is too much effort for you to be putting into the research phase.



While you have been over-analyzing, I have been driving mine and am thrilled every day.



And I have owned MANY sports cars, and I know the risk. You say you know the risk as well.. So just do it then...??


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[alfisti]

P.s. I am in the northeast, expensive labor. Hourly labor rates are not nearly the biggest factor in how much a mechanic charges for a repair. If the numbers scare you, buy a 4-cyl Alfa Romeo. I have had several, and they are inexpensive to keep running.


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[JGibb62]

It's about the gestalt. Not found it a $@!# honda!

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by jcgranato

PML, I am still confused about your valuation of $30,00-$50,000 for a well sorted 911. I bought a 1985 911 Carerra Targa in August 2013. I had to have it shipped from Texas to North Carolina and have put on new tires, new brakes, new clock, new guage lights, new motor mounts, new engine mounts and a new windshield. All in I have $18,345 invested. My insurance on the car is $169.00 per year for full coverage with a value of $20,000.

Sounds like you bought your car for $14k or so. Well, AAPL is not longer trading at $250 either. In 2014, buying a 911 will run you $20k-$30k. All 911's are $30k cars once sorted. The $30k car carries additional risk of needing another $5k of work anyways. I then factored in another $20k based on all the engine and tranny rebuilds these 911's seem to need. So, that's where I arrive at $50k.

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

Come on, let the man speak. He can't help that he knows no history of Porsche as the most winning endurance car in history.

Some of us don't give a $h*& about rice burners because we have owned them. They are cheap trash. .

I am not a Honda guy. I don't care about brands. I don't really care about car races. I look for good bang for the buck. At $30k-$50k, I don't see a 25 year old 911 as my best bang for my buck. At the $30 price point, I am open to buying a Chevy, Ford, BMW, Audi, Benz, Caddy, Subrau, or Porsche.

Originally Posted by X JBM X

On one hand, you analyze the 911 as an investment. On the other, you're comparing performance to modern vehicles, and on the third you discuss value.

Surely you can spend the same amount of money on higher performance, more modern vehicles, but it's not as intriguing to say, "I drive a Civic SI."

I am definitely not looking for an investment. But I am looking for compelling value.
Any car I buy, I drive it, maintain it, and expect take a huge loss on it.
If I sell and get some back, cool.

I don't go around bragging about what I drive, so this is not the appeal of a 911 for me.

Originally Posted by nicfranc

Hey, I bought my 1980 911 for $8,000 last year and it runs like a swiss watch.
Maybe you just don't know where to look.

Well, AAPL is not longer trading at $250 either.
You got very lucky, but the market is different now.
They are now $20k to $30k. All 3.2's are $30k cars.

Originally Posted by alfisti

I paid $12,500 for my '87 Carrera. It had 224k miles on the odometer, a 10 foot paint job, slightly tired interior (but presentable).

Way too many miles for my taste, but it sounds like a decent find. I'm glad you like your car, but 7 weeks is too early to be bragging at how cheap your running costs are.
You could be looking at major service tomorrow. There's a reason your car was priced at $12k.

My plan is to test drive several brands of cars in the $15k to $30k price range later this summer, and see what is compelling...

[Dgpoff]

PML

Please
Man
Leave

[alfisti]

PML, of course I understand it's too early to brag about maintenance costs. It's all about risks. But... I would rather buy a $12.5k car and risk it than a $35k car and risk it. Others mat think I'm nuts (and I assure you, they do). PM me, and we can talk by phone . Maybe my perspective is valuable to you. But I cam assure you of this - there is nothing iu can read about here that will do what a simple test drive will do. You will know if you want one of these pretty quickly once you have driven one.


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[jcgranato]

[QUOTE=PushingMyLuck;7906272]Sounds like you bought your car for $14k or so. Well, AAPL is not longer trading at $250 either. In 2014, buying a 911 will run you $20k-$30k. All 911's are $30k cars once sorted. The $30k car carries additional risk of needing another $5k of work anyways. I then factored in another $20k based on all the engine and tranny rebuilds these 911's seem to need. So, that's where I arrive at $50k.



Do you realize that I bought my car 6 months ago not six years ago? My car needs no engine or trans work. Any car carries risk but most do not need a motor and trans rebuild just because it in not new. You should be able to buy a very clean 930 turbo for $50,000. I think you are HOPELESS.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

If everybody turned on Silber, would you buy a 911 and get into the game?

I think Silber is full of dog poop because if you stopped a new basic Civic and an old 911 from 100 to zero ten times in a row, the test would be over in five stops once the Civic burst into flames.

You are now validated.

Go buy the car you want, which is the 911, and live. You will NEVER regret it.

OK, Bob, you got me again. I did a literal-LOL at that. DAMN YOU, BOB!!!!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by jcgranato

I think you are HOPELESS.

He's just a kid troll. And it appears he has got us all.

Throw him in the bit bucket and call it good.

[sperberj]

Dude Please; here is the most simple distilled answer and if this doesn't get in your dollar denominated world you never will! Ever!!!!

Take your 30 grand and buy the 911! Wait 20 years, keep it in good shape, sell it for 3 times that much;

or


Take your 30 grand and buy the Civic! Wait 20 years, keep it in good shape, sell it for $300, or the crush value.

Economics 101: Buy low; sell high

Get it?

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

Not much different than single people who don't know the joys of parenthood.

You have kids!?

[Noah930]

Bang for the buck: Gotta think E46 M3. They can be had all day for the mid-teens. 330HP, paddle shifters (or 6-speed), in every performance criterion beats the pants off a 1980s 911. And if you blow one up, you can buy another (or two) for PML's projected $50K price for a 911.

I can't believe you're still on this site, PML. Clearly you've analyzed yourself out of a 911. The only 911 within your price range is a 996, and that dreaded IMS/RMS issue is going to run you off from that model. You'll clearly be happier in a BMW, 'Vette, or WRX/Evo (which is OK, too, as they're great cars). They all make far more sense on paper.

[Dgpoff]

In other parts of this forum he has detailed his personal dress style inclusive of khakis, starched shirts and fine jackets. Additionally he indicated when he views a car (as a fully experienced collector car guy) he flashes banking or investment result reports to validate his alpha-maleness.

NO F*****g wonder none would let you drive their car. You show up at my place in that gear and with that game face, And I'm fairly confident I'd have to kick your a**!

The most likely scenario is that we have a 15 year old kid, with no intent of buying any cool car, that is just resume building to work towards asking little Mary Lou from down the street to the next school dance, as her dad is a Pcar dude.

So Mr. Jones, SInce a 3.2 can barely beat a Civic, Can I borrow your smart car and take Mary Lou out????

We have cut through the crap her PML. We'll help you get laid. You can now drop the pseudo Porsche crap that drives us all crazy and we can unite to set a goal of you letting Mr. Winkle take his first walk (while being non assisted with your own hands.)

[Long Nose]

I hope you are looking for an answer to your question and not just being a dick pushing peoples buttons. If you do want answers, consider this, because as a Porsche enthusiast myself, I have often asked this question. Why continue to invest time, money and even emotional investment in this particular car, in my case a 1970 911T.

The truth is there are a lot of great cars out there, based on what people value in a car. Some people value fuel economy, some people value the lines of the car and the paint job, some people value horsepower, some people value luxury and comfort. I certainly could have taken the money I have invested in my 911 and bought a variety of brand new cars. I guess that's the reason there are so many different types of cars in the world today. I currently have a 2012 Toyota Tundra, a 2010 Volvo XC90, a 2008 Jeep Sahara Unlimited, a 1994 Ford Mustang GT, a 1982 VW Vanagon Westfalia, a 1970 VW Beetle in addition to my 1970 911. I love a lot of cars, my Volvo is great for taking my wife, kids and their friends up to the mountains skiing, it has keyless entry, remote start, lots of room, is solid and great to drive, but now we are not comparing apples to apples are we. It would be silly to compare a Vovlo and a 911 using the same parameters for comparison. I can't haul junk in my Volvo, I can in my Tundra, so should everyone drive a pick-up?

With the exception of perhaps Ferrari, there does not seem to be another marque that inspires as much passion as Porsche, as you have seen from the responses to your post. I recently saw a feature om TV where they surveyd a number of automotive journalists and so called automotive experts, and the 911 was rated as "the best sports car of all time". I am sure if you google it, you can find it.

There are many reasons why the 911 is so popular, and I am sure each person has their own reason or a combination of reasons. Perhaps it is because Porsche as a company strove for nothing but engineering excellence for so many years (even today, probably not another production car that is as technologically advanced). That difference is noticeable when you drive a 911, no matter what year. The 1989 911 certainly marks the end of an erra in the development of a legacy, the original super car. That car has a lot of engineering in it, even the use of rare and advanced metallurgy in the engine, and that costs a lot to replace and repair. There is a big following for that car because, as a classic sports car, you have the closest feel to a classic 911 with the most modern conveniences (power breaks, power steering) and not all of the tweaking and tuning that comes with earlier cars.

Perhaps it is because of the racing legacy of Porsche, and although you don't get to drive a race car, you do get to own a piece of that Legacy. I think Porsche is one of the most successful racing brands in Automotive history.

Perhaps it is because of they took a concept that was originally thought to be impossible (air cooled engine in the back, WTF?) and continued to make it not only viable, but continually improve on it year after year for an increadibly long time in the automotive world, and finally develop a performance advantage over other competitors, as the handling characteristics of a 911, especially an older 911, are certainly unique.

Perhaps it is because it requires a unique set of talent and abilities to skillfully drive a 911. This is a car that continually improves your driving abilities, and it seems that no matter how much you drive it, you can still learn something more. You join a unique pool of really skilled and talented drivers who will actually take you under their wing and share their skill with you because you own a 911.

But, although there is a huge variety of vehicles, year after year the Porsche appeals to more people than does a Honda Civic, a Toyota Corolla or many other cars, and no one can argue with the laws of supply and demand. And, agree with it or not, one thing you can't question is that the value of certain classic 911's have remained steady, or even increase over time. So, when you consider this, the cost of ownership over time or km's driven is lower than comparable cars when you factor in the massive depreciation of other cars.

So, when people ask me why I would rather drive my 911 than any other of my cars, it boils down to one question -

"Do you want novelty or legacy?"

[HorstP]

this PML guy gets exactly what he wants, all the attention. Of course he will never ever buy a 911. The single best thing we could do on the next thread he starts just not reply at all, Only that will make him go away...

[Craig_D]

Attention Wayne, Bill, Jack, or Black 993.

* * * PLEASE BAN THIS GUY. * * *

This forum has avoided this type of crap, and is why 99.9% of us are here.

This guy will find another forum of passionate enthusiasts to piss on, and piss off, but as moderators, it's in your power to keep the community healthy.

BAN HIM PLEASE and be done.