`87 Carrera starter gear -> flywheel engagement problem/niose

[jwill911]

This used to happen just every once in a while, now it's happening a little more frequently.

It sounds just as you tried to start a car that is already running. Sometimes it will happen continuously until I put the car in gear (3rd or 4th) rock the car then it starts normally. I suspect the starter gear doesn't engage/mesh with the flywheel on first attempt due to positioning and each subsequent attempt it just does the same until the flywheel moves a little. Just not sure why it does it in the first place

So anyone else experienced this little anomaly with their 911s? Starter problem or flywheel gear. Car has 57K miles.

TIA

[jpachard]

Hmmm, My '87 has started to do this as well. I have 62K on the clock. Let's hope this is not a sign of bad things to come. I have noticed on mine that it only happens when the car is hot...

Cheers, James

[jwill911]

Nope. Mine does it cold too. Yesterday morning been in the garage all night. Had to put my foot out and rock the car. Sort of embarrassing when it happens in a public place under a lot of watchful eyes. My TR6 used to do it too, but you expect that from a Triumph.

[jperry]

Do either of you guys have the "high performance" starter on your cars?

[jpachard]

jperry, that's a good point. I 'll go through the docs from the previous owner.

Cheers, James

[Rick Lee]

If you '87 Carrera guys still have your original clutches in there, then this might be a good time to kill 3 or 4 birds with one stone - G50 clutch update, new ring gear, flywheel resurfacing, easy valve adjustment, etc. While my ring gear was fine when we did my clutch at 82,756 miles, I've heard G50 ring gears do go bad often. At your mileage, if your clutch is making any binding noise or the pedal is getting stiff, you might as well do the whole job at once. Replacing the ring gear requires an engine drop, but is a total cinch after that. I don't know if this is true, but I've heard you can sometimes just flip your ring gear over and get plenty of life out of the other side. Of course, this would depend on how it looks when you get it out. If only one side of the teeth are worn, then I've heard you can flip it. For the lousy $80 or whatever they cost, I wouldn't cut corners here after doing an engine drop.

[jpachard]

Richard, Yet another good point. I have a Porsche Motorsport LSD that has to go into the car this winter so I plan on doing the clutch at the same time. I'll add these items to the list *sigh*....plus the rollcage, monoballs,fire suppression......I have to have all of this done by February...yikes..

Cheers, James

[JDaniel]

Well guys, you are not going to like hearing this. The sound you hear is the starter slowly grinding away your ring gear.

It's a documented upgrade to a different ring gear. Unfortunately you need to r & R the transmission... and then you get hit with all the other the "while you're in there" upgrades (g-50 cross shaft, and new clutch, new flywheel).

I thought it would be OK to keep driving the car until complete failure. You can see from the pic that at least 30% of the ring gear was ground away, and the metal teeth were kicking around in there... grinding away everything they came in contact with! The longer you wait, the more you'll have to replace.

On a happy note, after my top end, clutch replacement and all related upgrades the car has covered 4k miles without anything going wrong. I'm almost bored. No unscheduled maint, no adding oil... just the occasional fill up with gas.

[Rick Lee]

On a happy note, after my top end, clutch replacement and all related upgrades the car has covered 4k miles without anything going wrong. I'm almost bored. No unscheduled maint, no adding oil... just the occasional fill up with gas.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh my God, did you just jinx yourself. I forsee a thrown rod or spun bearing in your near future now.

[KTL]

Here's the factory's explanation from the 74-89 Parts Reference:

Porsche Tech Tip

Poor Starter Engagement:

To improve starter engagement on 87-89 911 Carreras with G50 transmissions, a wider ring gear was installed on 89 model year cars. This new gear was installed in engine numbers 64K 01999 thru 64K 02208, and from 64K 03112. When repairing cars with starter engagement problems outside of the above engine number ranges, the starter ring gear should be checked for damage. If the ring is damaged, install the new wider ring gear part number 950 116 143 01. The starter gear should also be checked for damage.
Important
Make sure the ring gear is installed correctly: Flat surface towards pressure plate. Recessed surface towards bolt head. Torque bolts to 24 Nm/18 lb-ft. See PCNA Technical Bulletin Group 2, Number 8708 for additional info.

[Scott Chytil]

So what if I have an '84 engine mated to a '72 915 transmission and am having the same problem? The ring gear was new when I put the engine in the car (rebuilt), and that was 7000 miles ago. The starter was a rebuilt (not heavy duty) at the same time.

It happens to me when cold and when hot. It's happening when cold more lately. I just try again without bumping the car and it will start eventually. Most I have tried is 5 times.

Scott

[jwill911]

Thanks for all the info. Yes my car has the original clutch and the release shaft bearing upgrade hasn't been done. The clutch is still good and the clutch action is still fairly smooth but you can feel very slight binding, and I've known about that for a long time. So the ring gear will be added to the list. I'll be looking at a pretty expensive job when the time comes. I also will be needing an top end rebuild. My car is one of the early valve guide failure Carreras. Oil usage is still reasonable ~350-400 miles /quart total mileage is ~57K. Oil usage started increasing early @~30K and has leveled off since ~40K.

Thanks again for the many responses, I suspected the ring gear was getting chewed up. It just sounds like that. Kind of like a really big course dentist's drill working on those teeth. ouch!!

Still a great car, even if it IS brown.