Hi-Torque starter wiring fitment

[fasterlaster]

This past week I replaced the stock Bosch starter which was sticking when heat soaked with one of the hi-torque models from our host. Install went well physically, however the primary wire from the battery was too short with the existing routing to connect to the new starter which has the terminal at the top of the starter. I was able to re-route the cable and secure it so it's not rubbing, but wanted to see if anyone else had this issue?

I've also noticed that it does appear to turn 'slightly' slower than the stock Bosch, but I'm attributing this to likely the difference in gearing in the starter to allow that smaller electric motor to apply more torque.

[rfuerst911sc]

To my knowledge regardless of the brand all of the hi torque starters can be " clocked " in different positions. Yours may be clocked in a way that the wires are a stretch to reach. On my SC and my 914 with a 3.0 neither had any issues with wire length they both fit fine.

[pors1968]

It should rev faster than your old bosch.Did you check batt and trans ground.

[fasterlaster]

The battery and trans ground were cleaned (and replaced since the og ones were somewhat rough). I actually tried that after my first hot start issue, but it had the same behavior after 8 hours in the TX sun driving. It may be spinning quicker, but this is totally 'seat of pants' based on sound. Either way it does start, just seems to turn a bit slower, and start after a few more rotations.....I could just be paranoid.

[pors1968]

And the batt how old .

[fasterlaster]

Battery is less than one year old. The system does not seem to be working bad, I just don't believe I am observing that the hi torque starter spins faster.

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[T77911S]

did you clean the ground up by the battery.
is the battery cable end clean that goes to the starter
do you still have the original style crimped on connectors that go on the battery.

[fasterlaster]

When the starter acted up the first time after being heat soaked I went through the system and:

• Removed and cleaned both ends of the battery ground wire and wire brushed the body connection point
• Removed and replaced the transaxle ground wire and wire brushed both connection points
• removed and wire brushed the power wire to the starter and connection terminals

Not a care in the world until I did a full road trip of 12 hours, then it did the 'click - no start' again. I promised I would replace the starter if it happened again, so I did. One thing I'm not sure about is if the original crimped end is there, I'm not sure if the wire is original, but the crimp does appear solid.

[T77911S]

usually the click is related to a bad solenoid.
the solenoid requires a lot of current to pull in. how long and how the yellow wire is routed is a weak point in the system that makes a marginal solenoid even worse.

alos, the contacts inside the solenoid get burned and worn out, much like any contactor.
i did a thread on rebuilding the starter, you could look it up and just for fun rebuild your old one. it will make a good spare.

if the starter is turning over slow that can be due to resistance in the wiring somewhere. the starter needs a lot of current and the battery wires are also very long. (sounds like you have done a good job with cleaning. most just look and dont clean.)

be careful, you could try measuring the voltage on the starter while it is starting if you think you still have a problem.

[fasterlaster]

I may not have been clear enough about the slow starter. When I say 'slow' it's not really slow. Many people in other threads mentioned that the hi-torque starter would spin the engine quicker. I haven't observed that after swapping it out. It seems SLIGHTLY slower, but still plenty to start the engine.

I will however take t77's advice and just rebuild the existing starter. I do agree it was most likely a solenoid issue since a quick rap with a hammer helped it twice.

Thanks guys.

[kidrock]

1) I read a thread recently about these starters and if I remember correctly, it stated something about the gear size actually made the high torque starters turn a bit slower, but added torque.

2) Good advice on the yellow wire. Another place to look is the connector (14-pin, IIRC) located near the diagnostic port at the left rear of the engine compartment. Connector #1 is the yellow wire conjunction from the ignition switch to the solenoid, and sometimes gets crudded up.

3) I went through all of this recently, and found the problem was that the solenoid wasn't getting enough juice to turn the engine over....just an audible "click". The problem, which is very common, was from an old aftermarket alarm system and the horrible tie-in connections to install it. Some of the wires, especially the yellow one, had only a couple of wire strands tying everything together. Definitely not enough to fire over a starter system that needs every ounce of energy it can get to kick these beasts over.

BTW: a hammer rap also helped, although the solenoid wasn't the real problem.

[PcarPhil]

My experience with the ebay hi-torque starters is they do indeed spin the engine faster than the stock starters. Also the power cable length to the hi-torque starter is indeed a snug fit. However I don't have experience with the Pelican sourced starters.

[fasterlaster]

I wish I had measured the turnover speed prior to swapping out the starter. Sounds like it may just be a mystery for the time being .

As it has been mentioned I have a hard time believing that a hi-torque starter could spin faster with a smaller motor. physics still apply, and I suspect that the hi-torque portion is due to a slightly reduced gear ratio to provide more leverage. oh well. Plenty of other little jobs to do other than just mulling over a starter motor.

[T77911S]

i forgot to mention alarms. remove them.
my brother just paid someone to come to his house and remove his. he spent some $$ on his start problem beofre i found the alarm was the problem.
cutting the yellow wire then putting crimps connectors on and adding a relay, not in a good way, just makes the issue worse.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by fasterlaster

I've also noticed that it does appear to turn 'slightly' slower than the stock Bosch, but I'm attributing this to likely the difference in gearing in the starter to allow that smaller electric motor to apply more torque.

Yes, you are correct. This bugs me too. The starter motor spins fast, but the engine is spinning slowly.
The 3.2 won't just fire immediately upon cranking. The computer waits for the signal pin on the flywheel to pass the reference senders. So it can take nearly a full revolution of the crank for the engine to fire.