Help - Where to Find an Honest 911?

[AM94]

I've been looking for a pre-74 911 for awhile and seem to be struggling to find what I am looking for; therefore, I hoped I could get some advice.

I'm after a B series 1969-1973 Coupe and from a dry state.

I'm not looking for a cosmetically perfect coupe but don't want to embark on an extended restoration process - a car needing paint would be fine but something that will eat time and money on body restoration would not be ideal.

The ideal is to find a mechanically sound car but again, something that needs a little work isn't out of the question.

The problem is that whilst I can find 'restored cars' (many of them poorly done!), I cannot find good, honest, solid cars.

Can anyone recommend a source, place to look, etc.

I'm based in England but would like a LHD 911 and am willing to import one - in fact, that is my preference.

I'm not new to 911 ownership (have had 993s, 996s and a 997) but the older ones seem to be a minefield and trusted sources would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Eli W]

Honestly you are up against it.

The car you are looking for is rare as hens teeth.

I had a 911 E 1969 that I sold for 36k to a gentlemen in Atlanta. The car had next to no rust but, it needed a complete glass out restore and now the engine needs attention.

If I was to sell it today a year later I would ask 50k, because the ones that can be restored have been restored.

Looking for a car in the condition you want comes down to luck, and you would have to migrate to the US to find it, basically you are looking for the Holy Grail at this point.

The main problem is everyone else is looking for exactly the same car you just described, and they are out searching craigslist and want adds too and when they find it they are flipping it for big bucks.

[mystro]

Look in the PCA club magazine Panoroma. All clean air-cooled 911's are drying up.

[AM94]

As an aside, would it be the kiss of death come resale to take a Sportmatic coupe and swap it out for a manual box? I assume it would always be a bit of a Frankenstein?

[fiminod]

try... thesamba.com - search, vehicles 911/912 or try this link:

TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds

[Eli W]

It would hit the price but now even franken early cars are in the money. But Sportos have a pretty loyal following in their own right.

I found my 69 E at a garage sale, I did pretty good on it.

[Eli W]

This 1970 T looks like an easy fix. TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1970 Porsche 911T Coupe

Just a little wet sanding, duct tape and baling wire and it would be concourse quality. The ball peen hammer work on the minor dents would be the toughest thing.

Really, someone soon is going to list an early car that has visible rust, collision damage and an active fire in the engine bay and they will be asking 10K as is for it.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Eli W

This 1970 T looks like an easy fix. TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1970 Porsche 911T Coupe

Just a little wet sanding, duct tape and baling wire and it would be concourse quality. The ball peen hammer work on the minor dents would be the toughest thing.

Really, someone soon is going to list an early car that has visible rust, collision damage and an active fire in the engine bay and they will be asking 10K as is for it.

I saw a '72 roller for sale here in Atlanta -- it was in the last year or so. Lots of rust. Nothing but the tub. The guy's CL ad was $6800 OBO and it sold for about $500 more than his asking price!

[AM94]

I'm not looking for a miracle barn find, where some old lady believes the one owner, signal orange 911s in her garage is a worthless VW Beetle

I'm looking for an honest car and am willing to pay a fair price. The issue seems to be (as has been said) that there are either bad cars, tarted up, being sold by PT Barnum types or wrecks that are beyond my ability/desire to repair.

Thanks for the advice thus far and I don't think I'll be able to polish out the body damage on the pale blue car on Samba

[Marine Blue]

Originally Posted by AM94

As an aside, would it be the kiss of death come resale to take a Sportmatic coupe and swap it out for a manual box? I assume it would always be a bit of a Frankenstein?

I'll start by saying that I prefer manuals but since driving my Sporto for the past few weeks it would be a damn shame if someone removed it in favor of a manual. Sporto's are manuals with a vacuum actuated clutch and a torque converter. Yes the torque converter kills the off the line acceleration but that is the only hindrance I can see. The advantage is that you can downshift into 2nd and stop at a light or stop sign without getting out of gear. When you're ready to go the torque converter engages and your off. Beyond that it is essentially a manual requiring you to choose your gear

Amazing how the Sporto was the reason I hesitated buying the car but I find it one of the coolest aspects of the car (other than the visceral driving experience).

As far as the OP's question, I have to agree that finding that car that falls in the middle of a full restoration and a basket case is rare. I happen to have found one but it was a right place right time scenario and I wasn't even looking.

Good luck with the search and don't give up.

[Josh D]

If your primary search is in the US, it might be worth your while to find a broker to find a car for you that matches your criteria and your budget. I'm sure this question posted on the Early S Registry could turn up some leads, or get some folks looking for you.

[AM94]

Originally Posted by Josh D

If your primary search is in the US, it might be worth your while to find a broker to find a car for you that matches your criteria and your budget. I'm sure this question posted on the Early S Registry could turn up some leads, or get some folks looking for you.

Hi Josh,

I have contacted a few (tail end of last year and early this one) - one was a recommendation and the second was net-sourced. Both have been useless and either try to talk me into their post-74 stock or offer me over-resto'd too expensive painted pigs.

I'm a realist, will pay realistic money but don't want to buy a dolled up dud or a car that has lost all the patina.

Can you give me a link to the Early S Registry? or is it a stand-alone site and just a Google search away?

[AM94]

Originally Posted by sftjfjjia

Honestly you are up against it.

Thank you for your insightful comment; however, an even greater thanks for your hidden links (visible when you are quoted and when the site sends an email notifying me of a new post on this thread) to an insurance and fashion web site.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by AM94

Thank you for your insightful comment; however, an even greater thanks for your hidden links (visible when you are quoted and when the site sends an email notifying me of a new post on this thread) to an insurance and fashion web site.

Yeah, that little ******* joins Pelican under a new screen name every day and makes 8 useless posts. Wish I could find him and strangle him...

I'd still say that you need to engage the services of a broker. There are a number of good ones out there and they have access to plenty of cars. What's your budget?

JR

[RichardNew]

It's not going to be easy. You're looking for the same car as the serious collectors.

A major collector told me last month that the critical thing is to just get in the game. Buy a car that is less than you're looking for and ride the curve up. At some point you're going to find the car you've always wanted. You then sell your place marker and buy the car of your dreams.

If you wait for the perfect 911 (at least your idea of perfect) it will be out of your price range. The "good enough" 911 will allow you to ride the price curve up. Don't stay on the sidelines.

Richard Newton
Car Tech Stuff

[Flojo]

meanwhile it is clear to everybody that
a) you have to trip the country and take at real close look at the cars you selected
b) dont select to thoroughly as you might find good cars, that first apeared bad (and vis versa)
c) there is nowhere the one platform online or press to dwell

best is to build up connections to clubmembers, mingle with owners at meetings, scrutinize pelican AND all other sorts of advertising.

place a WTB in the pelican market section (copy paste your text from above)

good luck!

p.s. what about "the real barn find" thread car a couple of days ago...?

[r-mm]

I've been surprised at the response I've received to some Want-Ads I have placed.... on craigslist. I found a pretty great deal on a first series Alfa Giulia Sprint GT that needed "just the right" amount of work for my needs. Don't know if craigslist is active in the UK but try posting want ads here and there. You sound reasonable and people will understand that from the way you construct the ad.

[AM94]

Thanks guys - appreciate the feedback and advice.

I know that there is no magic wand and that finding the right car will take time; however, six months in, I am surprised at how unhelpful the brokers are, how many dealers can't even be bothered to return a phone call and just how much rubbish is being promoted as a 'good, honest, 911'.

I am looking on all the internet forums, the sales sites and anywhere else I can think of; however, wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a trick.

As for going to see a car - that isn't a problem if it is in Europe but I cannot afford the time to look at a car in the USA. If I found a suitable car, I'd look to have it independently inspected.

@Richard - agree about just getting into the market; however, am also mindful of not wanting to end up with a millstone around my neck!

@Javadog - budget is flexible; however, the ideal would be circa $65,000

@FloJo - The author of that thread brought it to my attention. I have seen a car in Munich, which I have enquired about; what is annoying is that I was there last week but didn't know about the car!

[docpardue]

Does it have to be a 911, or will you take a franken 912? I personally have a 1967 912, pretty clean body, needs paint work, maybe a little welding if you are really picky. Mine is not a clean interior, as it was a racer. Engine is oily, but I drive her several times a week. Engine is a 930 D chunk, with assorted 911/901 parts. Built as a 3.0 High flow oil cooler, pushed to the mid. Runs about 200-210oil temp. Pressure around 90-100psi. I have assorted parts, I personally have no clue what i'd want your welcome to offer a dollar value or,maybe id take a nice 993 or a 996 and some boot.

[AM94]

Hi Doc,

I did look at a Franken 912, which sounds like a similar project to yours and whilst it was a really tidy car, my heart lies with an OEM 911.

A few months back a friend offered me his engine transplant 911 and, again, a car with the original engine modded is one thing but I don't want to get into replaced engines, etc.

Cheers

AM