engine will not turn after reinsta[
 

Finally got my engine back into the car after almost a year. The starter motor just spins and I cannot turn the engine over by hand. I few months ago as I was working on the CIS it could be turned over with ease. Should I try some oil down the spark plugs of injector sleeves? How about the starter being misaligned with the fly wheel? Help I do not want to drop that engine again.

start with the obvious. Is it in gear with the parking break on?

Chris

Neutral brake off, rolls freely

Will the engine turn in any direction by hand. This will test to see if somthing fell into the combustion chamber by backing off the piston when turned counter clockwise.

If the starter is doing strange things, pull it off and see if the engine then turns by hand.

Chris

Pulled out the injectors and added a couple of cc of Marvel Mystery oil to each cylinder. I am trying to squeeze the pulley belt to spot it from slipping as I pry in the nut. still no go!

turn the engine by the nut on the crank. The pully belt always slips

Thanks Chris. will try your suggestions

How do you get to the nut on the crank with the engine installed ?

a regular wrench with an entension works. As sad as it sounds I used lots of duck tape to add a long screwdriver to the wrench. Worked great for years. Later used hose clamps to attach the extension to the wrench.

Chris

If you take a couple of the spark plugs out (don't need to remove them all), and the engine is not locked for some other reason, it spins easily by turning the fan pulley nut.

I wonder if there is a chance that you have some fuel in at least one cylinder causing a hydro lock?

Also, I don't quite understand what you mean by "the starter spins". Are you saying that the starter is spinning but not engaging the ring gear on the flywheel? Regardless, you obviously need to figure out why you can't turn the crank by hand before anything else is done.

I may have more problems. I cannot get the transmission into gear. I put in a new clutch kit. The transmission appears to go through the gears. The shifting rod is moving correctly. But I can push the car easily when it should be in gear. I dropped the engine without the transmission and did not get the fork lined up. Pulled the engine and transmission as a unit the next time. Separated the two and reassembled. The fork looked in place and correct through the inspection hole. I did not try and turn the engine by hand at this time.

You need to reset the coupler. If you fork was not in place you would not have any resistance with the cable off.

Will you pleas explain how to reset the coupler?

I put new bushings in the coupler. Market its position before removing it and reinstalled. Pin set correctly. Looks like the whole assembly is moving as it should through the shifting pattern. Gears don't seem to be engaging.

Put in new bushings or new coupler or both?

It is in the Bentley Guide, it is best if you have a helper to help you keep the shifter in place as you adjust the coupler and tighten it.

What year is your car?

As I mentioned earlier, raise her and disconnect the clutch cable ( and Omega ring aka clutch helper spring if your year has it ) and see if the clutch arm can move freely. If it does, then your fork is not in place.

It is an 82. It is the old coupler, just new bushings. It is in neutral. Seems to be moving the rod correctly. No gear engagement as I go through the pattern. All new parts on the clutch and lever assembly redone.

Then I default to the fork, raise her and disconnect the cable and helper arm, I think you have one then check if the smaller clutch moves, if it does, the fork is not on.

I also want to mention that, coming from someone with a lot of mechanical experience and who has made his fair share of mistakes along the way, this is one of those instances where you need to work on one problem at a time.

If it were me, I would first figure out why the engine will not turn over by hand (remove spark plugs and check for fuel in the cylinders and such), then what is causing the starter to spin but not engage the flywheel ring gear, and after that, look into the no-shift issue. If you try to do too much troubleshooting at once, and don't have a lot of experience doing so, you'll get confused and frustrated in a hurry.

I put her and the tools away for the night. It I am think the clutch is depressed and that is why the gears will not engage. I don't know why that would be. When I reassembled the clutch levers yesterday I remember the small arm would not move. I set the clearance according to the manuals and adjusted the throw. I will disconnect and check as you suggest. I am curious how any of this relates to the engine not turning over by hand. I was afraid that it could go like this today as the moment of truth approached. First time going this far into the car. I hate to give up and take it to a garage as a basket case I screwed up. I don't think I have it in me to pull that engine again.

Where are you located?

Don't worry get some rest and re-think your steps.

Let me see if I can find the adjustment procedure for the coupler.

Jim

Just PMed you with 84-86 procedures for the coupler reset, it should be the same process.

hey thanks guys. It is beer thirty here. I will kick back for the rest of the night and sleep on it.
I am north of Eureka - Have a small farm on the bluffs above the ocean between McKinleyville and Trinidad. Not very many 911s around here. Fun driving though.

I think you have couple of Pelican up yonder :D update you profile to show which county you are in, maybe a fellow Pelican can drop by to see what is up.

Check your PM

This morning working on engine not turning. Removed spark plugs and starter. She still will not budge in any direction. Using only alternator nut with hand tension on belt. Getting some good pressure on the wrench. Took off the shifting lever and helper spring. Put the little lever on the shaft. It will not move by hand. Are these two things related of separate issues?

If your engine turned before you connected it to the gearbox, I'd say you need to pull the engine away from the box to see what is going on there.

Is there any way of doing this short of a total engine drop again?

I can not turn my engine over by hand with the Alt nut even with plugs pulled. Get a wrench on the Crank nut (its not difficult just need a long one) and see if it is really locked up and in which direction.

I would not drop the engine until this has been done. You may not have an issue at all.

Chris
73 911 E

I did a partial engine drop this afternoon. I wiggled the engine a little way out of the gear box. That freed up the engine and it turned with ease. When I reset the engine and tightened it up, I have an engine I cannot turn. It seem logical now that I did something wrong with the clutch setup. I guess I will start draining the oil and prepare to drop the engine and gear box,so that I can split it and see what is going on there. A Porsche mechanic told me today that if I put on the throw out bearing on backwards that would lock everything up. I did thing according to the manuals and was very careful when I did that work. Many new and expensive pieces.

I wonder if you used pressure plate bolts that are too long, or the heads are too thick (sounds wrong, I know! :D) and they are hitting something? Sounds, crazy, but you wouldn't be the first to do that.

I used the complete clutch kit from Pelican. New bolts included. I did have the flywheel resurfaced. Could that have made the difference? I will be sure to see that everything turns freely before putting it back in the car this time.

Quote: But I can push the car easily when it should be in gear.


Did you happen to put the ring gear between the pressure plate and flywheel instead of ON TOP of the pressure plate? If so, this would explain the starter not engaging the ring gear since it would be too far away from the starter. Also, the pressure plate wouldn't clamp the disk and would result in the disk free wheeling when you push the car while in gear.

edit: might also explain why the motor wouldn't turn since the pressure plate may have been pressed against the inside of the bell housing.

Don't mess around anymore. I can drop the engine for an SC or a Carrera in 2 hours and get the whole thing solved in a day. Take the engine down, remove the gear box, take pictures of the flywheel, clutch assembly, fork, and someone will spot the problem.

engine and gear box photos
 

Pulled the thing out this afternoon. Here are the photos. The clutch disk is just loose in there. I have not looked at any of my books yet. Wanted to get the photos out her ASAPhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1400028546.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1400028577.jpg

right on Yelcab1
 

When I read your reply it sounded like what I had done wrong. I will be going out to the garage to assemble correctly. The engine drop was much better the second time with a good jack. It was very precarious getting the body up high enough with the old antique I had been using. I want to thank every one who took the time to offer help and encouragement. If any of you ever want to build a greenhouse- that is more my area of expertise than thinking I can do Porsche mechanics. But I will keep trying. It is the only way I can have these old wonderful cars.
Bill

Bill, I don't see a post where yellowcab gave a possible problem - mind sharing what it was? Ohhhh, looking at your recent pics it looks like the ring gear is on wrong (like Jim2 mentioned). Good job on getting it taken care of so quickly.

The clutch disc should not be just flopping around. It should be centered and held in place by the pressure plate.

Not for nothing, but did you replace the throw out bearing guide? if so did you replace the inner seal?

Jim

Jim, I replaced the inner seal but not the guide tube. Should that just be done at this point or is there a way to tell if it is worn. Most everything is new. It is hard to know how far to go.

I started this project because of oil leaks in the trilogy and vacuum leaks. My air box was separating form a PO repair and injector sleeves needed replaced. The clutch was at the end of it's life and the car was becoming undriveable. I have adjusted valves, replaced brakes and even a broken axle and trailing arm on this 82 SC. I love the way it drives. I thought I could take this on and it has been a very good experience. Not always easy, but this is my car and I want to do it. Thanks for advise to some one who know enough to be dangerous. I have a 912 and lots of VW experience with buses as a young surfer and college student. I felt I could take on a 911. I am sure there will be more mistakes and also successes. I have never thought it necessary to reinvent the wheel. It is great to be able to take advantages of the collective wisdom. I would have never taken this on without knowing there was help here.

Make sure you center the clutch disc before you tighten the pressure plate down, or you will never get the transmission to bolt up to the engine.
Bob B