East coast R-Gruppe?

[pwd72s]

You see Chuck, that's it. There are no written hard and fast "qualifications", like with the 356 & early 911S registries. It's REALLY loose knit, as Randy said...and it's ALL up to Cris. But think about this...all you guys fed up with PCA on the east coast? There is no law I know of that prevents you from forming your own "gruppe". And who's to say? Some year in the distant future? (Probably after I'm long gone) There may be a "pea-raid" outside of the one held every year by PCA. Hopefully involving folks who are involved with the car more than "whattayado" and "howmuchya worth". Folks like the SCWDP & RGruppe and whatever coming together for a celebration of life. Weird concept, eh?

[RLJ]

SoCal and NorCal were the first two chapters. Then came PacWest Chapter. The Pacific Northwest Chapter is a fairly loose gruppe too. We have had three functions each for the last two years. The guys live in the Seattle area down to the mid valley of Oregon plus up the Gorge. We meet at Gary Emory's Campout, the Portland and Seattle Historic Races. Next year we will try to get in a Sunday picnic and drive somewhere between Portland and Seattle.

Here is the deal, do as much as your want or as little as you want, get two guys together and if you are both members of the club then it is an R Gruppe event. As I see it that is part of the difference in R Gruppe and PCA. They are too structured.

The best thing about R Gruppe on the whole is very simple, I see it every time I'm around the guys. There are no egeos allowed, everyone is on the same playing field, they love Outlaw Porsches. The gruppe has 356, 914 and a 912 owners as members. It's not so much the car as the "attitude". Outlaw Porsches are just that "Outlaw's" we all kinda love each other. Last year at Cambria two of the favorite cars were a 914 rally car and the GT-2 that won it's class at Pike's Peak this year.

Don't get away from the grass roots, the lets go see how he did it kind of a club, go dive some where, mixing with folks who love hot rod Porsches.

As I get older I also find out that no matter how cranked up I build it, someone is going to be bigger and lighter and faster so braggin' rights at some point are worthless, not to mention a better driver, remember 95% or more of us have a lot more car than driving ability. It is easyer to be a Porsche owner than a Porsche driver.

Randy Jones
1971 911
Pacific Northwest Chapter
R Gurppe

[evren]

Thanks to Paul's recommendation Cris said I could join; so very much looking forward to helping set up a presence of like-minded enthusiasts in this part of the world... Any members from Australia, by the way?

[cegerer]

"Here is the deal, do as much as you want or as little as you want, get two guys together and if you are both members of the club then it is an R Gruppe event. As I see it that is part of the difference in R Gruppe and PCA. They are too structured."

Well stated Randy! There's a group of hotrodders and muscle car guys in my area. They meet every Friday night at a big shopping center parking lot (as they do, I'm sure, in most cities across the country). Very informal. No structure. No trophies. No awards. Just show up when you want and check out everybody's rides. This is R-Gruppe to me. It's just that it takes a bit more effort & travel due to the scaricity of our type of hotrods! -- Curt

[arrivederci]

I'm in for an east coast org...

- Josh
- '72 911T - Pepe
- '87 930 - Squatty

[Jim Richards]

Josh, are you keeping up with the NoVA Pelican group activities? We've got our next fun run through the countryside coming up on Nov. 17th.

[arrivederci]

No, I haven't kept up. I've been mostly following Rennlist, but recently perusing Pelican for some targeted technical advice. But November 17 sounds good to me. In fact, I just received an email about a potential Porsche fun run in the area...but the date hasn't been set. Is there an official invite that I can forward to these other guys that are trying to set one up (looks like lots of Porsche variety in the group -- 928, 944, 951, 911)?

[Jim Richards]

Josh, you have private mail...

[RSupdate]

Originally posted by pwd72s
I think this R GRUPPE is getting much bigger than Cris (and Freeman) ever envisioned. I pray it doesn't get away from them.

Well said Paul........

[kcope]

I'm in as long as I can keep my 911 all original.

NO! Don't go over there! Keep outta the Engine Compartment!!!
Those Webbers are Original I tell you!!!!!! They were on the car when i bought it!!!!!

[Rouxzy]

Count me in. East coast. Northeast whatever, I'll get to where it is. Except for when the salt flys, because that's when the wheels come off and the winter projects start.

[marc weintraub]

I am going to try this again, since I posted earlier. Talking to Cris about setting up the R Gruppe on the East Coast is an interesting concept, but due to weather patterns and the lay of the land it is just not viable. The way to keep a club of this nature alive is to offer events that are scheduled or the club will die.

On the other side of this... forming an unstructured club of early cars and respective drivers doesn't need instruction or guidance... it is, afterall, unstructured!

My thought about a club on the East Coast allows for everyones involvement regardless of what they drive. The fact that people asked in this forum if they would be allowed in the club is a bit disconcerting. Of course you would be... in the EarlySregistry or RGruppe. Cris is, as are all of the guys in the group, a really nice guy and when it was stated that the egos were left at the door... it was and is expected.

When I was looking to start a group of this nature on the East Coast, it clearly had a little bit of structure, but only to keep it alive... especially in the Northeast. The events were to be educational in nature, as was the website. This was meant to attract guys like myself that store their cars during the winter months. This allows everyone to come to events to learn about the cars that are in their respective garages and go home and do repairs or restoration tasks after the classes.

The fact that individuals are seeking guidance in this is somewhat curious because this board has always been a wonderful venue in getting people together. I would say that we have had a quasi RGruppe here over the years through conversation and impromtu meetings in and around the New York area. It takes very little initiative to get this going through a forum, but rest assured it will take quite a large effort to form a club and keep it going in the Northeast. Again, weather is a major factor. If anyone really wants to form a club in the Northeast, please contact me at marcw@pipeline.com. Also, please review my response earlier in this forum for more information.

I am not trying to be a hardass about this situation, but I do believe in doing this and have the resources to do it correctly. The RGruppe and Cris have done an amazing job in creating a wonderful, viable group in the West. They also have a year round environment that is better suited for this type of unstructured venue.

All The Best,

Marc Weintraub

[RLJ]

The weather here in the Pacific Northwest is rotten in the winter, sure we don't have salt and deep cold as much as the East, most of us still don't drive in the winter.

The point is, if you can only get togther three or four times a year "SO WHAT", that is how many times you can get together with your cars, most of us like each other enough to see one another somewhere social without or cars. The NorCal chapter started in Cris's garage, who cares what the weather is in a garage that does not leak. If someone wants to get more structure then "GO FOR IT" if that is what the folks in that area want and have someone to get the ball rolling. No one is saying that you have to have the layed back Southern Cal attitude for this to work, my belief is that most of your guys are so BUSY that a good shot of Porsche every once in a while is all that is needed. I you have a gruppe of folks who want a once a week club fling and have people to get these things done then "DO IT" have a blast, enjoy.

I don't belive that most of the PCA guys in the cold cold east don't drive there 4x4 SUV's to the club meetings in the winter, they do here.

Start a chapter and see what the folks in your area want to do, how often do they want to go play. California has nothing to do with R Gruppe! It is in your head man, not where you live!

Randy Jones
1971 911

[Randy W]

Hmmm...have to agree with RLJ here.

[Tspringer]

Im all over this... Count me in for anything in the southeast. Im based in Atlanta and own a '69 911S with 2.6 MFI hotrod motor.

This winter its getting the further treatment: Fiberglass early S bumpers and front spoiler, glass front hood and rear deck. Lightweight sport seats, RS door panels, lighweight rear interior panels. Im also further upgrading the suspension with alloy rear trailing arms and aluminum front cross member plus monoballs up front and bigger anti-roll bars and links.... plus a better bump steer kit. Im hoping for under 2100lb...

Anyone else in the Atlanta area?

Terry

[FA-18C]

Sounds as if getting this of the ground is more the issue that whether folks want to participate. I agreee fewer PCA'ers are prone to get their hands dirty and Pano and Excellence seems these days to pander to the much newer cars. (Recently went through the last year or so's worth of Excellence mags and only found 3-4 decent tech/restoration articles worth saving). Also due to the population density of the east being spread up and down the coast, several chapters would make sense, however this does tend to dilute the overall group effect they have out left. What about one East Coast R Gruppe with NE, Mid Atlantic and SE chapters. Each could host/mediate their respective local events and shoot for a couple of yearly get togethers. Someone mentioned VIR as a great gathering place, makes sense to me, we also are lucky here in Southern VA to be able to run the cars nearly year round due to no road salt and very little snow.
JUst some thoughts.

[Tim Walsh]

I don't think my car would qualify( '73 T) but I'd love to show up and participate. and yes I do almost all of my own wrenching.

[marc weintraub]

Randy (RLJ),

I also agree with you and you certainly make very solid points. Overall, however, I think a group that specializes in early cars should provide information or a service to the members, which was what I was driving towards.

I think the lose structure of the R Gruppe is good for some and certainly I would love to be at any and all events they have, but I would also enjoy track days, tech sessions, etc. This is more inline with what I was going to setup on the East Coast.

I certainly don't need any help setting up a losely structured organization, since it really is a group of guys meeting in a place. We do enough of that through this BBS. The art of the club, in this case, is the other information, which takes time in design and organization. This certainly makes for a great reason to create a faction of the R Gruppe on the East Coast. Still, I would want more!

I guess the statment, "Different strokes for different folks" comes into play here.

All The Best,

Marc

[FA-18C]

Marc, you are spot on, if the only goal is to get together, we can do that already. The beauty of organizing is to leverage the combined knowledge based and resources, be it restoration info, swapping parts, lending tools, posting tech data etc... I also agree you don't have to have a 300HP early 911 car (though I can wish) to be a "member" just by virtue of the interest you oughtta be included...

[racemor]

I have been following this thread closely because the articles about the RGruppe were a big influence in my decision to purchase my early 911. The looseness of the group. The ideas of staying period correct. The amazing effort put into these cars and the willingness to drive them as they were intended to be driven. I always pictured these cars as if they were owned by a Porsche engineer that had access to all of the good bits in the parts bins and decided to throw a few on his own car.


Reading through their website I realize that the club started small and did not meet that often, officially anyway. It seems more like a group of friends with similar passions about similar cars that just happen to have a logo rather than the other way around. Here is an excerpt from the site:

"Or better yet, call your local Porsche owner that you're going to meet him and a friend for breakfast and a drive this Saturday morning.

"The goal of the RGruppe has always been to leave your attitude to the car, not yourself. No egos allowed. And, It's better to spend an hour driving your vintage Porsche along the coastal winding roads than sitting in a chair admiring."

That is what it is about! Just change coastal to mountain and we are there. The funny thing is, we in the Southeast have almost begun doing this already by making use of our Appalachian mountains. This BBS has created active groups of Porsche drivers, not just owners, in Atlanta, Northern Virginia and lately here in North Carolina. The difference is that we don't have that early car focus.

I am wondering if we don't just need a "Benevolent Dictator" to pull it together. Someone with the passion for early cars that Chris and Freeman have. He could use the RGruppe as a model for forming our own group of flat 6 barnstormers, or bahnstormers as it may be. That would leave the original RGruppe intact without stretching boundries too far. We would be the same, but different. What do you guys think? Am I way off base here?

Tom