East coast R-Gruppe?

[CWilson]

I was an active member of the early 911 register in the Porsche Club GB before returning to the US on completion of a US Navy tour in the UK. I originaly joined this group after restoring a 72 with a Euro Carrera 3.0 engine. What I enjoyed about this group was their openess to everyone regardless of the model they owned. There were 356s, SC, 3.2 Carreras that showed up once a month for a chatmeet and some of the best friends I made were at these meets. We all brought show and tell pictures and parts and were able to get a guy from a local shop that would answer question in exchange for Beer. I decided I needed a daily car rather than a project and swapped my car for a 964 and still they welcomed me with open arms. I used to drive 2 hours once a month to meet these guys and would be willing to continue that now that I'm back in the US. We used to get about 10 - 15 people in the UK and I'm sure we could get that here. How about designating (Volunteers?) one person as a point of contact in each major city down the east cost (i.e Boston / New York / Philly / DC / Richmond / Charlotte / Charleston etc). Pick a place with a decent parking lot and access to adult beverages.

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by marc weintraub
The art of the club, in this case, is the other information, which takes time in design and organization. This certainly makes for a great reason to create a faction of the R Gruppe on the East Coast.

I can see the value in this type of information. As someone that is in the middle of a building a 911 "hot rod" I can tell you that it is hard to find information. Fellow porsche fans from the various 911 listservs/forums have proven to be very helpful. Of course my mechanic is doing all of the hard work (I'm just writing checks) and figuring out how to install a 3.0 CIS motor into an early car. The good news is that the effort is being documented with pictures and the like and when this project is done I plan to share the information with others that may set out to do similar projects. Sure I'd like to build a 2.7 RS spec motor with MFI, but that was slightly out of budget as was a 3.2 or 3.6 conversion (besides, that would be too much power ). To me a stock 3.0 with SSI's in an early car was a good compromise.

Over the summer I went to a local PCA picnic/car show. Lots of new cars, but much attention was paid to the three early 911s that showed up! Regard PCA, I think it really does depend on the region and the members of that region. I've always had a great time at local events and haven't come across any attitudes. Perhaps some overzealous autocross junkies, but no attitudes.

I guess my point is that it would be nice to know a network of folks on the east coast with similar interests in early 911s.

Chuck

[john_colasante]

I don't understand what bad weather has got to do with 911's?

[marc weintraub]

Once again, I fail to understand why someone should use the R Gruppe as a model to replicate. There is nothing to do other than contact your buddies and drive.

Our cars are the last 911's that had really accessable engines and simplicity in design. This lends itself to garage mechanics and do it yourself venues as seen by the forums on the Pelican BBS.

Getting together is a phone call/email away (that is the R Gruppe). I could care less who shows up and what they drive, just so long we everyone enjoys themselves. On the other side of this, however, wouldn't you like to see a professional interior shop fix or minimize the mandatory crack in your dash. Wouldn't it be nice to go to a shop and have the MFI discussed and explained in all of it's glory so you could work on it yourself. How about diagnosing the leaks you might have on your garage floor. What about setting up your suspension for racing or autox?

Getting together is very easy... being a source of information is a totally different story. This has been the story and plan I have been working on for over 3 years. After owning 8 early cars, this was what I was looking for and nobody could provide it. My knowledge on these cars is pretty good... not great, but that is why an informative forum is better for me. I can always learn more and I certainly enjoy helping people. Getting people together to help a fellow early car owner with a problem is just as much fun for me as driving around is. The feeling I get from putting another early car on the road is reward enough!

marc

[RallyJon]

Once again, I fail to understand why someone should use the R Gruppe as a model to replicate.

Maybe the cool name has something to do with it?

Seriously, from the tone of some R Gruppe members' posts, there seems to be another, less tangible component--and that element is what the west coasters seem to think would be most difficult to replicate over here. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but even in the absence of the west coast "zen," I think an organization with the same basic external priorities as the R Gruppe would be very appealing.

- Early 911s and 911 "hot rods"
- Drivers cars, not garage queens
- Performance modifications encouraged, even when non-original
- Emphasis on driving events, track days, hill climbs, road rallies, etc.
- An appreciation of the road racing and rallying heritage of early 911s
- No exchanging business cards at events

[marc weintraub]

I absolutely agree, but I would hate to have a club that wouldn't accept my garage queen. This type of club is for all who show up, regardless of anything to include 914's, 912's,etc. Like I said earlier, I enjoy the hotrods and I certainly love the original cars, but that is neither here nor there. I envisioned a group that would talk to people that just wanted to learn more about the early cars or those that owned other Porsches and wanted to understand why we love our cars so much, etc. We do these types of things on this BBS, why not in person?

The rest of the premise is exactly what I was setting up, along with an informative website. Once again, however, the R Gruppe premise works because it doesn't have to take time from our already busy days because it is losely structured. Having a group with a certain amount of structure takes time and considerable thought, along with maintenance along the way. Just ask Wayne what it took to get the Pelican website together.

Marc

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by marc weintraub
Just ask Wayne what it took to get the Pelican website together.

Marc

And I don't think anyone could disagree about that. Or like how the Rennlist got started. As I remember there were a number of people subscribed to the PorscheFan lists. Those lists collapsed and John and others took the initiative and started up the site. Some founding members chipped in some dollars to get things started because those folks saw the value in the network.

Clubs and organizations get started because of a common interest and because of the dedication of founders to make it get off the ground. Which is a whole lotta work. At the same time, if it's valuable and people are committed, well then its worth it.

Like everything else, what's important to you is where you spend your time and money (except taxes, no choices there!).

Are there enough early 911/911 hot rod fans on the east coast to support an organization/club/user group/association/special interest section? I'm not sure. But I'd like to think so.

Chuck

[marc weintraub]

Chuck,

Very good question pertaining to the amount of early cars on the east coast. Tough call! I had over 100 responses over the course of a few weeks when I had proposed this a few years ago. Is that enough... I really don't know, but I am sure we would get our share of 914's, 912's and every other early Porsche car.

Again, a group that is more structured will take considerable time (time is money), money in equipment and bandwidth. Can it sustain itself? I think it probably can, but is the amount of time it takes to get it going prohibitive? Again, I just don't know, but that was the reason why I couldn't follow-up on the idea when I first thought about it and put it up on this board.

If I get more interest, I might just do it and move forward more aggressively for this spring. The timing is actually very good.

All The Best,

Marc Weintraub

[David McLaughlin]

I agree that structure would help the club stay together, but sometimes structure takes a lot of the fun out of it. That's the way I feel about the PCA anyway. I like tech sessions too, but I have the most fun with impromptu gatherings. Rennlist had a gathering some weeks ago. It consutsed of a BBQ and a drive (whos route changed mid lunch). That was a blast! I also had a great time when two friends got together to wrench on one's car. Three guys ripping the suspension out of a CA original car was more fun than expected and a task got completed faster then planned too.

I would rather gather to oogle a few cars and BS then go for a nice somewhat planned drive than to stand for hours in a shop listening to someone explain something I can't do myself or something that will take more brain power than listening alone.

Either way though, I'm always looking for more fun things to do with or without my Porsche.

[racemor]

Marc, your ideas sound great and I would like to help if you go through with it. And I think that there are a good number of East Coast people that would join up. But I think our locations may determine how structured the group would be. I have a feeling we would be very spread out. Getting together at an interior shop or garage or race shop would be very informative and something I personally would like (it is what PCA should be doing). But I would have a hard time making it up to the Northeast more than once a year. Is this how you would see this working?

To me the ideal would be 2-3 large meets per year in central locations, maybe the Hershey meet being one of them. The other two could be split, one north and one south. I don't think there is a need for regular monthly meetings but maybe a few regional representatives that could be contacts for new members or ride/meet ideas, and have info on tech/resto/mechanic sources in the area. Info or reports could be posted to a website, no need for the cost and work of a newsletter, at first anyway. Local drives or breakfast meets or tech sessions would be handled via emails and phone calls or posting to the website.

Whether this would qualify as regional RGruppe division would be up to Cris I guess. I still think it is the philosophy and purpose of the group that is most important and that is what makes the relaxed "Zen" of the RGruppe work. At least that is how it looks from the outside.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

[Joe911]

I am always interested in meeting with like Porsche lovers. Never seem to get much of a chance to do so unfortunately. Although I love my Carrera - I feel WAY STRONGER about the 1969. Count me in on some weekend meeting if it is not too far. I read about the west coast meetings and think about how much fun it must be!! Atlanta or Charleston would be nice. This would also get me going on the hood mounted driving lamps I have had for a year and not taken the time to install! Now back to work.

[Joe911]

I am always interested in meeting with like Porsche lovers. Never see to get much of a change to do so unfortunately. Although I love my Carrera - I feel WAY STRONGER about the 1969. Count me in on some weekend meeting if it is not too far. I read about the west coast meetings and think about how much fun it must be!! Atlanta or Charleston would be nice. This would also get me going on the hood mounted driving lamps I have had for a year and not taken the time to install! Now back to work.

[marc weintraub]

This is why the Pelican BBS is great... great feedback and ideas. OK... let's take this a bit furthur. In the original concept, we were joined together by one website, but the east coast was split into 3-4 segments approximating 400-500 miles each. I know restoration shops and great Porsche mechanics in each that were willing to have seminars/shop classes moving forward. At least they were willing when I first had the idea!

We all know the tracks in our respective areas and track days were definitely a must for this early group. We can also setup Autox and DE on our own throughout the regions. Picnics and just goofing off were certainly part of the overall gameplan. If this structure is too much for someone, well... it is his or her choice to miss out on the fun and festivities.

In the end, the smart way to do this is create chapters with leaders that know the shops and geographical area they are in for weekend jaunts and seminars or gatherings. It would be fair to say that each chapter can have gatherings as much as they want and it would be more arbitrarily done in as far as structure is concerned. Regardless, there would be some structure because this club would offer pertinant documentation, parts we can buy in bulk for savings for the members, web activities, etc. There is power in numbers and this could help us get both sundry and more vital products for our cars. As with any club, you make friends and get together anyway, so the structure that is being offered can be avoided while you reap the benefits of the club as needed.

I am getting closer to getting this thing going just because of the challenge. Thanks to everyone for helping lite a fire under my butt. Now, if only I could burn some calories.

Marc

[arrivederci]

I'm almost always up for getting together to wrench on someone's car...as long as I don't have to drive too far. Since I'm near Washington DC, that pretty much means I'm limited myself to things around the DC area.

But there's nothing that I wouldn't want to try to do on a 911. While I don't have a ton of experience, I usually consult forums like this, as well as other local enthusiasts, and then dive in. I dropped the motor from my '72 about 2 years ago. And I recently replaced shocks on both my cars. I helped a buddy drop the motor from his '79 930 last spring. I also just finished installing GHL headers and muffler on my 930...as well as replacing the front rotors and brake pads. And now I'm diverting my attention back to the '72 (have new SS brake lines to install, and then another motor drop prior to rust removal and RS flare installation...all after a DE in December). Unfortunately, I don't do a good job of documenting the installs/mods.

Group drives are cool too, but I'd probably drive my 930 for that since its a my daily driver. The coolest part of group drives, IMO, is the chance to see what everyone else is doing with/to their cars. For instance, my '72 is meant for track work. So I could share my experiences with roll cage install, carrera oil cooler install, Sparco seat install, etc. While we can talk about mods here, its much more effective to see what someone did first-hand.

[pikester]

Did this ever happen

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by pikester

Did this ever happen

Yes.

[pikester]

Is there a way to join the group, contact info

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Paul Thomas

Anyone in the southeast interested in starting a right coast faction? I am a PCA member but have only hung out with those guys once and that was too much. Meeting up regularly with some fellow Porsche-philes would be great. Any real R-Gruppers please chime in and advise. Honestly, i have never known wheather R-Gruppe was an actual organization or just a state of mind.

Cheers,
Paul

As a PCA member since the 80s, who has had the opportunity to hang out with some R-Gruppe guys at a few race/track events, definitely a much cooler group to hang with for us guys who would rather have older Porsches and aren’t concours weeniess. Hanging out with the “R-Gruppe was truly enjoyable and I felt at home.

[crashmy911]

Why not just include all air cooled 911 cars? They are all old now and hard to come by.

[jedoyle]

Is it still exclusively long-hood 911s? Are G-bodies eligible now?