will 8 & 9" x 15" Fuchs fit stock 911SC fender wells ?

[JBQuick]

Anyone who owns an SC with stock fenders in this configuration PLS POST some pics. I was wondering if the 8s in front might stick out too much. Thanks !

[alwaysflat6s]

The short answer is no. People have done it, but there is a lot of rolling fenders, trimming this and that AND being very careful about ride height AND big limitations on tire sizes. Basically, you can play with a terrible handling car with a RW look and undersize tires... or...

Sell the 8+9x15s for good $$$ and get a set of 7+9x16 930 Fuchs which fit great. If you are obsessed a pair of 8x16 951 wheels will fit up front with a little work but for street it is a waste of $$.

Either way, have fun

[Ducman]

OK stock offset does not fit, but if you choose to go custom you can have a very potent combo. Here is mine on 15 x 8 & 9. No rubbing. It is mostly an autocross/track car but I do drive it some on the street no problem.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by JBQuick

Anyone who owns an SC with stock fenders in this configuration PLS POST some pics. I was wondering if the 8s in front might stick out too much. Thanks !

The issue is going to be more related to tires. There are very few 15" performance tires that are still available in sizes that are desirable for use on a 911.

8 & 9(or even wider) can be fitted when they have the right ET and the right tire, in 15 -18" sizes.

Unfortunately the only streetable 15" sizes that I can find after an admittedly short search, are Toyos in 205/50, 225/50 and 225/45 sizes, The Toyo lines are RA1 or 888.

You could fit 205/50 x15 on an 8, though it's .5" wider than recommended and you can fit 225/50 or 225/45 on 9, though again it's .5" wider than recommended. But you would need ET in the range 25-30 for the 8s and 12-15 for the 9's.

The factory used 7ET23.3 & 8ET10.6 w/ 205/50 and 2225/50 x15 on early Carreras. That's what I would use too.

[Driven97]

Yeah, good & properly sized 15" tires are hard or impossible to come by.

I ran my car a few times on a 15x7/15x9 combo. 225/45-15 all around. Pinched on the 7 quite a bit, stretched on the 9. Tires are BFGoodrich Rival S (awesome 200tw tire!)



At 23" tall they're 2" shorter than what our cars should be using, which is pretty significant. Driving around on the freeway is irritating, many rpms to keep up with traffic.

In a perfect world you would want something like a 245/50 or 255/50-15 which afaik doesn't exist at all out back, and with unmodified fenders to be safe something like a 205/60-15 up front. Those exist, but in no tire you'd actually want.

You didn't specify, but if you're just going for the hellaflush look and not the benefit of more rubber, you could always just spacer out your existing wheels. You may have to swap out longer studs to do it safely, but it can be done pretty easily. Another option.



Took me an afternoon to pull the hubs, swap studs, reassemble and bleed the brakes, and I'm a slow worker.

[alwaysflat6s]

Interesting. I wasn't aware of different offset on early Carreras [I presume you are referring to RS cars]. I have never seen a discussion on the 15s like has been extensively discussed about 16s. I would LOVE to see/hear more on wheels and more specifics/images?

I'm a bit confused by references to the factory using 50 series tires on early Carreras? Specifics and vintage? This is very different than my understanding [185/70 front & 215/60 rear]. I used the same size [Yoko 008] you refer to on a '73 RS in the mid 80s but that certainly wasn't stock. BTW, there ARE some great 15" tires out now- but prices- ouch. Michelin TB, Avons, Hoosers for a start. Nothing like the good old days when there were plenty of affordable 15" stickies.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by alwaysflat6s

Interesting. I wasn't aware of different offset on early Carreras [I presume you are referring to RS cars]. I have never seen a discussion on the 15s like has been extensively discussed about 16s. I would LOVE to see/hear more on wheels and more specifics/images?

I'm a bit confused by references to the factory using 50 series tires on early Carreras? Specifics and vintage? This is very different than my understanding [185/70 front & 215/60 rear]. I used the same size [Yoko 008] you refer to on a '73 RS in the mid 80s but that certainly wasn't stock. BTW, there ARE some great 15" tires out now- but prices- ouch. Michelin TB, Avons, Hoosers for a start. Nothing like the good old days when there were plenty of affordable 15" stickies.

My '76 Carrera 3.0 had 2 optional wheel &tire packages
option 1 was 7ET23.3 & 8ET10.6 x15 Fuchs w/ black ctr.
option 2 was 205/50 & 225/50 Pirelli P7 tires

You don't want to use Hoosiers on the street

You pick an appropriate tire and let use know what you want to use.

For a fairly complete list of oe wheel used on 911 both oe and aftermarket click on the wheel link in my sig or click here

all 911 7s are ET23.3 doesn't matter if they are 15 or 16
all 911 8s ate ET10.6 doesn't matter if they are 15 or 16

for early 944 Fuchs that fit a 911
all 7s are ET23.3
all 8s are ET23.3

There are 2 o/s for 9
9x15 used on early cars is ET3 These are not appropriate for an SC/Carrera
9x16 used on late is ET15, these are appropriate for SC/Carrera rear

[Ducman]

As Bill mentioned 205/225 50 15 was an original Carrera size and IMO depending on your engine and gearing is a good option. The RA1 is a pretty good street tire in this size there is also the RR and a few others besides those Bill mentioned if you're mostly autox and track.

Technically 8 & 9 is 1/2" wider than generally recommended for this tire size. However I felt the current R and slicks could benefit from a little more rim (to me they seem to wear wider than they used to) I gambled to have a custom set made and try. I really like them. Again IMO it works better on my car than 7 & 8.

[alwaysflat6s]

Thanks guys. Bill, in particular.. I am familiar with your postings and knew that probably was correct. I defer to OME [Old Man Excuse] and thought I remembered the Carrera3s running 16s. I will now go to "Rennlist Wheels" and re-educate myself.

[JBQuick]

Thank you for all the wonderful replies esp the technical details.

[KTL]

The 15x8 wheel with it's low offset can fit the front but it's really tight. Looks like it sticks out too much but people make it work. Good picture in this thread

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-autocross-track-racing/840193-what-size-tires-you-using-15s.html#post8375762

Here's another thread with discussion on the fronts. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/822066-15x8-fuch-wheels-up-front.html

The search function is your friend. Just have to be patient/diligent and try different terms. But that's easy to say. I was doing some searching a month or so ago about this same question for my own car (i'm considering 15 in. wheels for the '86 for track use) and I saw a thread with a bright green car that had closeup pics of the front, showing very clearly how tight the fitment is at the fenders. So tight that you'd think to yourself "c'mon dude, there's no way that tire doesn't rub!" I can't find that thread now......

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by KTL

The 15x8 wheel with it's low offset can fit the front but it's really tight. Looks like it sticks out too much but people make it work. Good picture in this thread

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-autocross-track-racing/840193-what-size-tires-you-using-15s.html#post8375762

Here's another thread with discussion on the fronts. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/822066-15x8-fuch-wheels-up-front.html

The search function is your friend. Just have to be patient/diligent and try different terms. But that's easy to say. I was doing some searching a month or so ago about this same question for my own car (i'm considering 15 in. wheels for the '86 for track use) and I saw a thread with a bright green car that had closeup pics of the front, showing very clearly how tight the fitment is at the fenders. So tight that you'd think to yourself "c'mon dude, there's no way that tire doesn't rub!" I can't find that thread now......

More correctly there are people that claim to run 8x15.

Anyone that believes them is welcome to try it, it is not going to be an easy fit and there will certainly need to do some surgery on the lips. Tire choice will be critical as will suspension setup and settings

The most credible was Mike P. aka Analogmike. He owns a beautiful bright green '73 RS clone (base was a '73T)that he used to race a lot. Haven't seen the car in years because he has been racing his Cup car.
here's a pic



#s don't lie but peoples memory and understanding of what wheels they have is very often questionable

Here are some hard #s for Fuchs WF/S-Wheel front space, TF/S-tire front space(this varies a bit from tire to tire), TH- Tire height
7x15
ET 23.3
WF/S 75.13
TF/S w/ 205/50 ~79.2 easy fit SC/Carrera front any ride height
TH 23.1"

8x15
ET 10.6
WF/S 100.53
TF/S w/ 225/50 ~101.9 easy fit SC/Carrera rear any ride height
TH 23.9"

8x16(944)
ET 23.3
WF/S 87.83
TF/S w/ 205/50 ~79.2 tight fit SC/Carrera limited ride height. Lip mods are necessary most times, the lower the car the more likely
TH 24.1"

aftermarket
8x17
ET25
WF/S 89.3
TF/S w/ 235/45 ~92.5 Extremely tight. Major lip surgery mandatory. restricted ride height. This is at or near the max that I have been able to fit.
TH 24.4"

8x17
ET31
WF/S 83.3
TF/S w/ 245/40 ~91
.5 Extremely tight. Major lip surgery mandatory. restricted ride height. This is at or near the max that I have been able to fit.

Driven 97 has a special set of 9' on the front of his, I can't remember whether they are 15,16, 17 or 18 or the tire used, but assuming these are built w/ modern .5" flanges
9x??
ET35
WF/S 92 I don't know how they fit

[Bill Verburg]

Here's chart I put together showing the various fits, the closer to the box left and upper edges the more work and restrictions need to be applied.

[Cook&Dunning]

Here are some pics of my 8 x 16 rears on the front of my 89. The tires are stock rear size 225 50 16 Continental DW's. Overall tire dia. 24.86" I agree with Bill Verburg that tires will have a lot to do with this working or not - These Continentals bulge out quite a bit - With the right tire I could see this might work, but as mentioned in above posts, it could be tight. Perhaps a more narrow, lower profile tire. maybe that is what I see on the Green / yellow RS picture above?
(My ride height and suspension are not dialed in yet)

[KTL]

Bill,

Thanks for posting that car picture. I believe that is the one I was recalling.

Completely agree that we often have to take people's word with a grain of salt because they don't always have wheel widths correct.

Mattt made his front 17x9 via a combo of wheel surgery and spacers http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/861999-9-front-wheels-under-carrera-flares.html

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by KTL

Bill,

Thanks for posting that car picture. I believe that is the one I was recalling.

Completely agree that we often have to take people's word with a grain of salt because they don't always have wheel widths correct.

Mattt made his front 17x9 via a combo of wheel surgery and spacers http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/861999-9-front-wheels-under-carrera-flares.html

Yes, but most of the width on Matts' 9 is on the inside, Even w/ the stock metal shock covers removed the tire(255) he had was rubbing hard on the bellows. Last I heard he was going to try fitting a 245.

The front wheel well is greatly restricted by the shock dust cover and inner wall in turns on the inside and by the inner edge of the lip on the outside.

You can fit a wider tire by raising the car and or fitting a shorter tire.

This graphic shows the outer and inner limits for wheels


This is better because it shows the limits for tires.
All tires are different, some are right on the nominal sidewall spec others are +/- in section width, tread width, tire height and shoulder profile.

All are distorted to some extent by mounting on wider or narrower wheels

All distort dynamically by road forces.

Suspension spec and alignment add or subtract to the amount of room a wheel/tire assembly needs

Doing these for wheels is easy because a wheel is strictly defined by it's specs, for the above reasons tires are much more difficult to do and need to be handled on an individual basis, both wrt the wheel it's on and the individual tire line.



I was going to include Mats 9" front in this but it is so far off the chart as to not be useful. If any one wants to see where Mats 9ET35 w/ a generic 255 tire sits in the above here are the tire front/back space specs, a nominal 255 can be wider or narrower than 255 so both of these can grow or shrink w/ a different tire.
3.62"/6.38"

[Driven97]

Yup, mine rub the inner tub at full lock, and would definitely contact the cans if I still had them. That's with 245s. I may have a mm or two outboard, but that tire is pretty stuffed in there.

Also if you didn't click the link above, I had to roll the lips flat and run a fair amount of camber to get enough room between the strut and fender top, along with perfectly nailing the offset. Not just a bolt on deal.

I have 255s on 9" out back, and they are virtually impossible to tell the difference even side by side. The 245 is on the left in this photo:



So I THINK 255s on a 9 would fit my car, but I have 4 245s sitting in my basement for next season so I'm not going to find out.

I guess the big point is there is a lot of room to go inboard, especially if you don't run a tire with a balloon shaped sidewall. There's not a lot of outside room on the stock offsets / Euromeister 17x7 ET23.3, especially with unrolled lips and little camber.

But when you start pushing those outer reaches of Bill V's chart, you might have to go trial and error style. Easier just to use a known good.

[Bill Verburg]

It's for sure that camber plays a big role in fitment, note that stock camber spec is 0°+/-10'
w/ 0 or + camber the tire actually arcs out, it's only w/ - camber that the wheel arcs in

[JonT]

Originally Posted by Ducman

OK stock offset does not fit, but if you choose to go custom you can have a very potent combo. Here is mine on 15 x 8 & 9. No rubbing. It is mostly an autocross/track car but I do drive it some on the street no problem.

Ducman--can you please tell me your offsets and where you were able to have these 15" custom fuchs made? Which tires brand and sizes do you use also please. Thanks

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by alwaysflat6s

The short answer is no. People have done it, but there is a lot of rolling fenders, trimming this and that AND being very careful about ride height AND big limitations on tire sizes. Basically, you can play with a terrible handling car with a RW look and undersize tires... or...

Sell the 8+9x15s for good $$$ and get a set of 7+9x16 930 Fuchs which fit great. If you are obsessed a pair of 8x16 951 wheels will fit up front with a little work but for street it is a waste of $$.

Either way, have fun

Ohhh Contrair Monfrair...

My short answer is yes...

15x8/9s w Hoosiers there are a dozen cars at a local buddies shop with this set-up.

( I would advise to understand actual tire dimensions...same size, different brands, actual physical sizes differ dramatically)

Properly lowered and aligned no issues