3-point seatbelt install in a longhood

[Joshy Robots]

Hey crew!

beefing up safety with some 3-points. I'm weighing between mounting them to the Recaros like my current lap belt setup, or figuring out some way to mount them to the tunnels.

would love to hear perspectives.

car must've had 3-points sometime in the past because there's a convenient bolt in the B-pillar. or maybe that's for hanging bananas.

Pics!

[DCOP]

The B pilar will support your belt mount and there is another hole below that one under the wheel well panel which is used for the retractor. These holes are 7/16 U.S. thread. The older brackets on my seats do have mounting points for the lap portion. The best option would be tunnel mounts as later models use. I got my belts from Seatbelt Planet and they do make them for all 911 models. They also have some mounting hardware options. Feel much safer with the 3 point vs the old 2 point I removed. Good luck!

[Joshy Robots]

thanks DCOP!

I'll have to go pulling panels in the morning to see what's hiding in there. I don't remember seeing anything when I cut out the floors but maybe I missed it.

more as it comes!

[gamin]

The lower mounting hole mentioned above is covered by vinyl and padding on the inside but is visible in the rear wheel well and is filled with a bolt. Just take a look. I just installed 3 pt belts on the 70. I have early recaro sports and mounted the belt to the seat frame as you show. I was lucky to source a good set of 70 dated porsche euro belts. MUCH better than the individual belts that came on the car. A friend just installed a set of aftermarket belts in his 70 with good results. You will have to make a hole in the vinyl to install. I really didn't want to do that but there is no way around it. Push something through the bolt hole to locate.

[Joshy Robots]

I'll give it a look, thanks gamin!

[jlynch1960]

From (?) through 1984 they used the floor mounted seat belt receivers. When they changed the seat style in 1985, the receivers were instead mounted to the seats. I thought about this as I switched out my original seats for some later ones with the seat attachment points. At the time, I checked the mounting bolts (seat rails to floor) to see if they were beefed up when they switched to the seat mounted receiver and I thought they were the same as before, but, on that point I stand corrected - they actually did use a larger bolt. Up until '84, it was an M6x16. In 1985, it was changed to an M8x20, proving that my memory is not what it used to be.

I decided to stay with the floor mounted receiver as it seemed to make sense to distribute the momentum from a crash to another part of the car.

Just some observations from someone who had pause to consider this once.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by DCOP

The B pilar will support your belt mount and there is another hole below that one under the wheel well panel which is used for the retractor. These holes are 7/16 U.S. thread. The older brackets on my seats do have mounting points for the lap portion. The best option would be tunnel mounts as later models use. I got my belts from Seatbelt Planet and they do make them for all 911 models. They also have some mounting hardware options. Feel much safer with the 3 point vs the old 2 point I removed. Good luck!

Glad you pointed out that bolts are SAE thread and 7/16. I found this out the hard way when I was redoing my roll bar and wanted to weld in a fitting to fasten the roll bar to the "B" pillar. I could not find a metric bolt to fit the threads. I finally went to a speed shop and clerk asked if I was sure it was metric. He said lots of German cars had SAE bolts there because the seat belts were US made.....he was right 7/16 was the size I needed.

I bet it is the only SAE thread on my '73 911!!

[Joshy Robots]

Are either of these the bolt holes the ones y'all were talking about? They currently have plastic plugs in 'em:

[gamin]

Forgot to mention the plastic plug. The hole I used is the upper one in your picture. I installed mine with all the vinyl installed. The plastic plug was a surprise.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by dicklague

Glad you pointed out that bolts are SAE thread and 7/16. I found this out the hard way when I was redoing my roll bar and wanted to weld in a fitting to fasten the roll bar to the "B" pillar. I could not find a metric bolt to fit the threads. I finally went to a speed shop and clerk asked if I was sure it was metric. He said lots of German cars had SAE bolts there because the seat belts were US made.....he was right 7/16 was the size I needed.

I bet it is the only SAE thread on my '73 911!!

FWIW, worldwide all seat belt bolts are SAE grade 5 (metric grade 8.8) SAE 7/16-20 UNF bolts.

Metric ones may have a metric head with SAE threads.

[Joshy Robots]

Got the passenger side in though not sure how I feel about how high the lap sits. Pretty sure it's supposed to sit across the hips, not the belly.

Suggestions?

Suppose I could weld in some lower mounting points.

[HarryD]

Not good.

The mount in the rear (upper one in post #8, it should be already threaded) is for the belt retractor. There is a point on the B pillar (see the second picture of post #1) where you attach the seat belt guide. The other end of the belt should be on the side of the seat. If you look at your first picture of Post #1 that is the point for your non-retractor end of your belt.

[Joshy Robots]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Not good.

The mount in the rear (upper one in post #8, it should be already threaded) is for the belt retractor. There is a point on the B pillar (see the second picture of post #1) where you attach the seat belt guide. The other end of the belt should be on the side of the seat. If you look at your first picture of Post #1 that is the point for your non-retractor end of your belt.

Um. Yeaaaah.

Those are the points it's mounted, and that's where it sits when mounted at those points.

Could be I'll have to weld in new threaded mounts for the retractor.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by joshkobrin

Um. Yeaaaah.

Those are the points it's mounted, and that's where it sits when mounted at those points.

Could be I'll have to weld in new threaded mounts for the retractor.

Something is very wrong with your install picture.

This is your picture of the uninstalled belt:


The boxy item on the left is your retractor. The upper arrow shows the location where this goes.


The top item is a pivot and goes on your B pillar. Your arrow shows the correct location.


The other end of the belt (shown below the retractor) goes near or on the floor next your seat. The point shown below is the correct point.

[HarryD]

Also, your car looks to be a pre 1974 car with later seats. This means you have seat adapters to attach the later seats.

These threads show some details how the belts might be installed:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/337668-question-73-911-owners.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/546970-help-seat-belt-mounting-points-early-911-a.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/233730-72-seat-question.html

[Joshy Robots]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Something is very wrong with your install picture.

This is your picture of the uninstalled belt:

The boxy item on the left is your retractor. The upper arrow shows the location where this goes.

The top item is a pivot and goes on your B pillar. Your arrow shows the correct location.

The other end of the belt (shown below the retractor) goes near or on the floor next your seat. The point shown below is the correct point.

Thanks for the follow up. Again, that's where I have it mounted. Just as you describe.

You might be onto something about the seats though. They're early Recaro LS-Cs, and do sit lower than factory '69 seats. Final solution might be welding up a plate to mount them to at the base of the B-pillar.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by joshkobrin

Thanks for the follow up. Again, that's where I have it mounted. Just as you describe.

You might be onto something about the seats though. They're early Recaro LS-Cs, and do sit lower than factory '69 seats. Final solution might be welding up a plate to mount them to at the base of the B-pillar.

I think not.

Here is your picture:


I see the retractor in the correct location, but the non-retractor end of the belt is going back to the retractor. It needs to drop to a connection point on the door side of the seat and next to the seat like this:

[Joshy Robots]

Originally Posted by HarryD

I think not.

Here is your picture:

Ahhhh! I've seen the light! Thank you sir. So both sides of the lap belt attach back to the seat.

I think where I went wrong was in my original question, I was looking for points on the car itself to mount the belts to (for safety?). Again, thanks!

[bkreigsr]

My 73, 77, and 85 all have the outboard 7/16th bolt mounted in a factory bung in the heat passage tunnel (directly opposite the seat corner hinges). If it were me, I'd start looking for mounting locations that are not on the seat itself - you want a restraint to keep you in the car and the seat at the same time.
Bill K

[RSTarga]

Seats have been known to slide loose. Chassis mount all pickup points.
Never have a lap belt across your thorax, hip bones only.