What is a "Restoration?"

[Discseven]

LOG #3


“Restoration:”

• Is not a “conservation.”
• Destroys historical artifact of an object.
• An intervention with the goal of returning an object to a previous state.
• Has 2 distinct categories: “fictional” and “non-fictional.”

“Non-fictional restoration” applies factory standards, materials, specs & techniques.
“Fictional restoration” does not abide by factory standards, materials, specs or techniques.
Neither category above is a reference to end quality. They are different courses with either category having the ability to outperform or under-perform the factory in terms of end result.

• Brings an object to a state it never originally existed in.
• As a process, is inevitably affected by changing materials, tools, technology, and techniques.
• According to Ron: what dorks/dweebs/nerdusmaximuses/owners of white 930s do when they don't have the stones necessary to build a proper performance car (just build them back to their overly neutered, full of compromises, and often lamely executed by the factory, states)!

“Conservation:”

• Maintains original artifact of an object just as the factory created it.
• Provides an accurate historical reference to what factory created.
• “Protects” what factory created.
• Is archival.
• Is cleaning without altering factory materials or composition.

“Preservation:”

• Places object into controlled environment with the intention of slowing down deterioration.
• Does not intervene with object---is entirely environment focused.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

Karl, you could save time and space and simply delete everything except the "According to Ron . . ." part!!!!

Simplicity, my friend!!!!

Except your editorial addition, ya' chowderhead!!!

[reachme]

/re-stord/. Includes "destroy" without the Y

Just trying to be witty.

These cars don't last long if mistreated and I love watching the restoration threads.

I also love real patina on driver cars, and hope they all get driven.

[Cook&Dunning]

Shaun - that chrome is artwork. Just amazing.

[acme911]

Should "Restomod" be entered into this conversation?

[larrym]

here is a link worth considering in this debate

Difference Between Restomod and Auto Restoration

there is a thoughtful & detailed article by Richard Lentinello in Hemmings Sports & Exotic "restoration vs refurbishment" - January 2007, page 104 - "in simple terms, a restored car ... has been rebuilt exactly the way its mfgr first assembled it at the factory"
http://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hsx/2007/01/Restoration-vs--Refurbishment/1396114.html

what is interesting about PCA Concours now-a-days is that originality is not judged, in 4 of the 6 Concours classes; excepting the "Restoration" class open to cars at least 11 yrs old - and the "Preservation" class in which un-touched originality (i.e., patina - not ever replaced, restored or refurb'd) is important

.

[RichardNew]

Don't get me started on PCA.

PCA is basically a clean car contest. They have no documentation of what was original. At least not the way other marques have.

Even PCA Preservation class is questionable. Last year they awarded the top prize to a 911 that had the entire front pan replaced. That would hardly be an original car in my world.


This is what an original car looks like.

Richard Newton
Auto Transport

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

Karl, you could save time and space and simply delete everything except the "According to Ron . . ." part!!!!

Simplicity, my friend!!!!

Except your editorial addition, ya' chowderhead!!!

...I had to Ron. It's my calling

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by acme911

Should "Restomod" be entered into this conversation?

Indeed... another category arrives.

[Discseven]

LOG 4

“Restoration:”

• Is not a “conservation.”
• Destroys historical artifact of an object.
• An intervention with the goal of returning an object to a previous state.
• Has 2 distinct categories: “fictional” and “non-fictional.”

“Non-fictional restoration” applies factory standards, materials, specs & techniques.
“Fictional restoration” does not abide by factory standards, materials, specs or techniques.
Neither category above is a reference to end quality. They are different courses with either category having the ability to outperform or under-perform the factory in terms of end result.

• Brings an object to a state it never originally existed in.
• As a process, is inevitably affected by changing materials, tools, technology, and techniques.
• According to Ron: what dorks/dweebs/nerdusmaximuses/owners of white 930s do when they don't have the stones necessary to build a proper performance car (just build them back to their overly neutered, full of compromises, and often lamely executed by the factory, states)!

"Restomod:"

• Maintains original appearance.
• Guts of car updated with modern, high-performance parts.
• Result is vintage looking car with advanced performance, comfort & safety.

“Conservation:”

• Maintains original artifact of an object just as the factory created it.
• Provides an accurate historical reference to what factory created.
• “Protects” what factory created.
• Is archival.
• Is cleaning without altering factory materials or composition.

“Preservation:”

• Places object into controlled environment with the intention of slowing down deterioration.
• Does not intervene with object---is entirely environment focused.

[shaunmbenson]

Great thread!!!

I'd suggest that under Restoration there is the possibility that "state it never existed in" may not be true as I just read an article about a shop -- in SoCal I think but it escapse me - where they restored an RS as it would have left the factory -- with certain 'imperfections' and bits of tape under paint etc. So perhaps "period factory accurate resto" or some similarly convoluted term could nails those ones down.
I would also suggest under conservation that there are non-factory conservations -- in other words it's conserving through intervention with alteration but sometimes to a later version of the car -- especially a car with provenance. sort of halfway between non-fictional restoration but not to a factory spec

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

You're good peoples Tip!


Karl, the definition of a vehicle restoration is simple; it's what dorks/dweebs/nerdusmaximuses do when they don't have the stones necessary to build a proper performance car (just build them back to their overly neutered, full of compromises, and often lamely executed by the factory, states)!

PS - not talking about Shaun's component restoration which is quite boss, buttofcourse!

Originally Posted by Cook&Dunning

Shaun - that chrome is artwork. Just amazing.

Thank you Gentlemen, I truly love what I do. Have spent months now perfecting clear anodize for window frames. Takes about 40 hours to do one set.

[metalmickey]

I've read with interest the comments on this thread regarding restoration. Every 911 when it leaves the factory is brand new and unique, there is not another 911 like it. The first owner takes delivery drives it. It is not brand new but still unique. Over time it develops a patina changes ownership and may collect a few dings, have worn parts replaced. Then one day comes the time when an owner decides to carry out major repairs to the body and mechanics of the car. The condition of the car dictates the depth of the repairs or replacements of the parts. No matter how well the car is 'restored 'renovated' 'rebuilt' it is not the same car that left the factory. My point is cars evolve through their life. We should all try and keep these great cars on the road and to what extent and money each owner wishes to put into doing this is their choice. Better than new cannot be achevied. You can improve the handling upgrade the brakes achieve more power have a better paint job etc, but it is, and never will be that brand new unique car that left the factory. It has evolved. Restored to 'As New' is impossible. Restored, Renovated, Rebuilt, so long as it keeps another 911 on the road I don't care.
Just drive your Porsche and enjoy it.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by metalmickey

Better than new cannot be achevied. You can improve the handling upgrade the brakes achieve more power have a better paint job etc, but it is, and never will be that brand new unique car that left the factory.

I strongly disagree with the "can't be achieved" bit. My 1987 Turbo is far better than new in areas such as power, power delivery, mechanical reliability, electrical reliability, fuel system tuneability, safety, climate control, etc., and the list goes on and on. It is a much better car than it was when it sold new - no comparison at all.

[metalmickey]

Your missing the point I'm making. Youve made upgrades to your car to improve the performance etc, but it can never be the same as when it first left the factory.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by metalmickey

Your missing the point I'm making. Youve made upgrades to your car to improve the performance etc, but it can never be the same as when it first left the factory.

Understood, but to me, that is a success considering the car is a far superior machine in every regard to what it was when it first left the factory - much better than new.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by shaunmbenson

Great thread!!!

I'd suggest that under Restoration there is the possibility that "state it never existed in" may not be true as I just read an article about a shop -- in SoCal I think but it escapse me - where they restored an RS as it would have left the factory -- with certain 'imperfections' and bits of tape under paint etc. So perhaps "period factory accurate resto" or some similarly convoluted term could nails those ones down.
I would also suggest under conservation that there are non-factory conservations -- in other words it's conserving through intervention with alteration but sometimes to a later version of the car -- especially a car with provenance. sort of halfway between non-fictional restoration but not to a factory spec

Shaun... as I get into dialogue like this, want you and all to know that I have no ax to grind here. Goal is to establish definitions that improve our ability to accurately communicate a car's state (in regard to the work that's been done---or not done---to it.) Some definitions will be obvious. Others may need hammering out. I don't care what the definitions are so long as we majorily agree to them.

"State it never existed in" refers back to the original state a car was in when leaving the factory. For example, strip a car's original paint and repaint it exactly as the factory would---or---replace a single washer... given either alteration, that car is now in a "state it never existed in." Are we going to allow exceptions so there are "grey areas" to be accepted? Imagine if we did this... how many washers could be changed before a car goes from being considered a conservation to a restoration? If the artifact of a car is lost when changing a single washer---and it is---then there can be no exceptions to the definitions. It's splitting hairs with washers but I'm testing the definitions by doing so. Seems to me the SoCal place did a fictional resto. (Leaving tape under the paint cannot be a Porsche factory spec & technique.)

A conservation (as defined to date) preserves a car as the factory created it. Being "as the factory created it" means a car leaves the factory in a state of artifact. ANY alteration to a factory's artifact---except for cleaning---terminates the car's "conserved" status. Front or back-dating a car is a significant change to a car's artifact. There's no way such a car can be considered conserved. Seems to me a front-dated car is a restomod. Back-dating could fit under fictional resto due to not following factory specs for the original year of the car. Were any modern advancements made to any area of a back-dated car, that would also make the same car a restomod. Clearly, a car can have a hybrid status.

[Sparty911]

All - Looking for a range to expect for the cost to media blast and repaint a 72 T - Signal Yellow. Assume no metal work, etc, just clean it up and repaint. Car is currently marooon. include cost of disassembly and reassembly. I do not want perfect concours amazing, just a solid paint job. Am I 7-10K, 10-12K? More? In the Midwest - How much did you pay?

[shaunmbenson]

Discseven -- now I get the 'state it never existed in' -- makes sense.
And yup -- be nice to have a common set of terms for chats and selling/buying

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Sparty911

All - Looking for a range to expect for the cost to media blast and repaint a 72 T - Signal Yellow. Assume no metal work, etc, just clean it up and repaint. Car is currently marooon. include cost of disassembly and reassembly. I do not want perfect concours amazing, just a solid paint job. Am I 7-10K, 10-12K? More? In the Midwest - How much did you pay?

Sparty... I've had crap jobs done for 4 times the cost of excellent work---so comes down to who does it. Point is, price & quality can vary widely. Would suggest you post question in Paint & Body forum. Those guys are dialed into what you're looking for. Might even get recomends for shop or shops in your area. Good luck with project!