Recaro SRD install

[jakermc]

I have a pair of Recaro SRDs I want to install in my '83 SC. Can I use the stock rails to mount them on or do I need to acquire a set of rails from Recaro?

If they can be mounted on the stock rails, are there any tricks I need to know? Can I reuse the stock bolts with the mounting holes on the Recaro seat or do I need another size?

Thanks for any help

[widebody911]

Remove rails from your stock seats

Remove rails (if present) from your Recaros
Bolt the Recaros in the car. Using new H/W is always a good idea, as the hex bolts get munged easily.

[Joe Bob]

You "can" use the stock rails, but they will need some new holes driled and new fasteners. If you are a good DIY'er it can be done.

If you don't change your own oil get the RECARO rails.

[widebody911]

Mine went in with the stock rails and zero modifications. Nein. Zilch. Nada. Nichevo.

Originally posted by mikez
You "can" use the stock rails, but they will need some new holes driled and new fasteners. If you are a good DIY'er it can be done.

If you don't change your own oil get the RECARO rails.

[Joe Bob]

Oh well.....on mine the seats were longer than the stockers and covered the holes on the car mounts. Had to drill new holes and use different hardware.

[widebody911]

Maybe that's 'cause everything's bigger in SoCal

[jakermc]

Thom -

Are those 4 pt harnesses you are using? What are the pros and cons of a 4pt versus a 6 pt, assuming the 5 pt. is out of the question for the SRDs.

Rob
1983 SCarrera (3.2L Euro engine)

[Joe Bob]

Some SRD have a sub hole cut....mine do, any decent upholstery shop can do it.

[89911]

You can mount the SRD with an adaptor plate also. It is much easier and you can still retain the inner setbelt if you want 3 points for the street. The only disadvantage is it raises the seat about 1 inch if headroom is an issue. We are mounting them directly in an 87 and have to drill out the brackets to allow it to sit flush on the seat supports. After that, it not too hard.

[widebody911]

They're 5's - the sub strap isn't visible in the pic.

Originally posted by jakermc

Are those 4 pt harnesses you are using? What are the pros and cons of a 4pt versus a 6 pt, assuming the 5 pt. is out of the question for the SRDs.

[arcsine]

Mine went in with no muss or fuss. My seats came with new hex bolts and washers. I had to leave the slider rail in the car as I could not see any way to bolt it back together if the seat was attached. I did buy a 4.5 or 5mm hex drive socket to make it easier to get the bolts that hold the seat to the rail off/on.

I will second Rob's question; what are the merits/problems with 4-5-6 pt harnesses? FWIW, my shop charges $50 to put in the sub-belt hole in a 5-pt.

[89911]

The biggest advantage of 5 or 6 over 4 points is that you can tighten up the shoulder straps without having the lapbelts come up with them. The sub belts holds the opposing belts in place and allows you to crank them. You can never have these belts "too" tight. The should be as tight as comfort allows. That is why the better belts, (Schroth) have built in padding the can allow you to keep them tight without being in agony.

[89911]

Forgot pic.

[Wil Ferch]

89911:
I hope I read your post wrong...."advantage" of a 4 point over 5 or 6 ??

There is no advantage...and plenty of disadvantage when using only 4 point..4 points indeed DO allow the lap belt to ride up and possibly cause severe soft tissue damage in an accident. it's the 5 or 6 point that keep the lap belt in proper position. I believe either the archives here or on Rennlist will go into this in considerable detail.
---Wil Ferch

[jakermc]

So are 5 pt harnesses usable without a sub-hole? I inherited an uninstalled pair when I bought the car and they don't have the extra hole. All I have are the seats, no hardware and no rails. What does the sub strap attach to on the car?

[Wil Ferch]

Depending on the seats, you may want an uphosterer to cut/trim a hole ( better)..or run the 5th strap over the front seat ( not as good). From there in either case...again , depending on the seat...you can go straight down through a drilled hole in the floor with a BIG backing plate ( think 3" x 3" x 5/16" thick)...forget washers. OR...tie into a substantial portion of the seat structure below. I've done this with semi-satisfaction on a stock 85 Carrera seat, by draping over the front and connecting to the "C" channel that bridges the seat and mounts the power seat motors. Nice thing about this is that the 5th strap adjustment stays put if the seat is moved fore/aft. This set up may be OK for DE but probably not for lower class racing or club racing venues.
---Wil Ferch

[82SC]

I was just at the recent international council of motorsports medicine meeting and there were some really good talks about racing belts

Bill simpson was there and showed his new 9...yes 9 point belt system.

what struck me the most was that there are very common mistakes in installation that can render the belt pretty much ineffective.

it is true that the belt needs to be on very tight...and from a sitting position it is really hard to do it yourself. there are pics of pit crew members actually stepping on the driver and cranking down on the belt as much as possible...

obviously the belts shouldn't be painful or they can cause problems too

also the installation of the anchors was important. the shoulder belts are most effective when they are anchored at a point paralell to the height of the driver's shoulder and the belt's anchor points are better if they are NOT exactly horizontal

both inner points of the belts should be a litlle higher then the outer points...so that is follows the contours of the shoulder as well as contribute to the "V" shape of the shoulder harnesses

in a crash the shoulder belts are not doing their job until they the belts themselves are stretched to the horizontal position...so if your belts, shoulder and anchor points are already horizontal there is less forward movement of your body...but for example alot of dirvers have the shoulder harness holes way above their shoulder so in a crash the body will move UP and FORWARD till all 3 elements are horizontal...the forward motion puts your face closer to the steering wheel and windsheild....

another problem was the lap belts. if they are installed and the belt rides on the side bolsters of the seat, or the belt holes, it may not hold the pelvis really well. hard to explain without a drawing...but if the installation is wrong...all the clamping force is doing is holding the seat and not your body...

and right now the 6 points are the ones recommended. The 9 point simpson is up for debate...

I know this is kind of hard to envision without diagrams...

Also all of this should be read with knowledge that we were discussing open wheel, and nascar crashes. crashes up to 75G's and beyond. so things like the anchor points strapped to your roll cage is ok for club racing, but for CART and F1 the belts are custom mounted for each driver...

if you are an amateur racer...maintaining your safety equipment is your respobsibiltiy...check your anchor points and the metal around them...check your belts for fraying,...make sure your buckles work well...have a friend help you get strapped in...etc...

checking before and after each event would be a good habit to get into

hope this was helpful

MJ

[89911]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
89911:
I hope I read your post wrong...."advantage" of a 4 point over 5 or 6 ??

There is no advantage...and plenty of disadvantage when using only 4 point..4 points indeed DO allow the lap belt to ride up and possibly cause severe soft tissue damage in an accident. it's the 5 or 6 point that keep the lap belt in proper position. I believe either the archives here or on Rennlist will go into this in considerable detail.
---Wil Ferch

Wil, your right. Should read, advantage of 5-6 over 4.

[Wil Ferch]

89911:
I *thought* it may have been a typo....
Just being careful since these posts are archived for use by later readers...
Thanks

--Wil Ferch