DIY suspension rebuild vs taking the car to Mayo?

[Nathans_Dad]

Hey all, I have finally gotten the money saved up to redo the suspension on my car. I live about 20 minutes from Mayo Performance in Euless, Texas. I ran the car over there today and had Tom look at it. Just from talking to him it was apparent to me that he knows A LOT more about Porsches than I will probably ever know. He had several ideas on tweaks to the suspension that I had not thought of.

My original plan was to do the suspension myself with Elephant racing parts; using Mayo for bushing installation, etc. I have a quote coming from them but Tom seemed to think it would be somewhere around 12-15 shop hours for them to do the whole suspension, corner balance, align, etc. I was a little surprised it could be done that quickly but it made me really wonder if it's worth it for them to do it vs me doing it myself. I've never done any suspension work, the most complicated thing I've done on my car so far was oil return tube replacement.

I really don't want to get the car apart and then discover I'm in over my head.

I guess the best of both worlds would be if they let me come over and help wrench on my car but I'm not sure if they would allow that or not. There might be liability insurance issues as well as the fact they probably don't want some rookie slowing them down, lol. I do plan to at least ask if that is a possibility though.

If you guys had Mayo in your backyard what would you do?

[wildthing]

There are two ways to look at this question. One: how much is your time worth? This can be a purely financial exercise. The second of course is more emotional: what kind of satisfaction or pride do you get with "I did that all by myself!"

I personally am a software guy, so you won't see me building robots, but I am willing to write the software for the robot. So yeah, I'll pay an expert.

[Knockdown]

I just re-did mine at the end of last year. Some things come apart grudgingly, this takes quite a bit of time to figure out a way that works without damaging other parts. I had a shop replace the bearings in the trailing arms, and it still took me about 5 weeks of fairly dedicated garage time. You need some patience and some tools help, torch, air chisel, big hammer, impact wrench, etc. ER stuff is nice!

[Craig_D]

You can do it. You just need to be patient, break down the project into smaller projects.

Look here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/726309-78-sc-elephant-racing-suspension-rebuild.html

[wareaglescott]

The satisfaction of doing it yourself and the knowledge gain will be the payoff in the end not to mention the cost savings. Look at what a great resource this forum is. There isn't much that can come up that someone can't help you work through.

[chrismorse]

If you are interested in getting into the car, have a space and are willing to spend a fair amount of time getting comfortable with the wrenching, DIY.
How is your tool collection??? Do you want to be more self reliant, do you have the time and money to pursue this hobby??? Being a novice means it will take you many times more hours than the shop will charge. Frankly, the price, (12-15 hours), sounds like a good deal, but it depends on the scope of the repair.
It is very easy to start into a project, then get more involved, as you uncover torn rack boots, an old master cylinder, brake lines, tie rods, worn discs, sticky calipers, torsion bars that are worn into by the sagging bushings and that is only the front end of the car, did I mention discs, shocks, wheel bearings, top strut bushings???
If you have a knowledgeable Porsche buddy willing to help you through this, cool.
If this is your daily driver, take it to the shop.
There is a ton of help available here on the forum. If that is the direction you want to go, you will find a lot of experienced guys willing to help you work through your questions/options, but make no mistake, it can get expensive, time consuming, frustrating and very enjoyable/rewarding.

Talk to the shop about what needs doing and what you are interested in using the car for. Let them help you make a plan and a rough budget, so you don't get in over your head....

Ask me how I know :-)
chris

[Nathans_Dad]

This is not my daily driver, I have already gotten permission from my wife to take over the garage and have her car out in the driveway while the Porsche is under the knife.

I would like to get into wrenching more, I bought my first 911 with the idea that I would learn to work on it but darn it that car just ran and ran and ran. I think the only thing I ever did to it was change the oil. That was a 1984 911 Targa that I sold about 8 years ago. I bought my current coupe around 6 years ago and have done a bit more on it, changed oil return tubes, new alternator, tune up, etc.

This would certainly be by far the biggest project I have undertaken to date. I'm just trying to figure out if the best course would be to just jump in and do it (get over the jitters) or have the big project done professionally and continue to do smaller things myself.

[pmax]

I would think it depends on what your goals and interests are.

Is this a refresh, change the bushings, torn boots etc or a redo to improve handling at the limit, for instance ? I would gladly pay the experts if it's the latter.

[Nathans_Dad]

This is a refresh on a street driver that I might want to do a little DE with once the suspension is sorted. No track plans.

[donporfi]

Study Craig_D's post, after that you can decide if you have the skills and tools needed to do this project.

[paulmose]

Like above, it depends on what your time is worth. I did the entire front suspension ('85 Carrera) with Elephant parts and Pelican + shop manual + Elephant guidance. I did it in two days, one day per side. But it took me a solid week to plan and get psyched up. It was really easy, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again and you learn so much in the process. But get ready for huge torque numbers on the front bottom nut, serious torque and a serious wrench w/a cheater bar.

The rear is a different beast with u-joints, etc. That's the one I will be taking to Tom.

[samurai_k]

I did a major suspension overhaul DIY where I replaced all of the control arm bushings, coil-overs, arb upgrade, tie rod upgrade, new ball joints, and new subframe bushings. While it took longer than expected, I learned a tremendous amount about my car through the experience.

When I look back on the experience, the following is what I would recommend my friends

1. Good jack stands like the Escos so you can get the car high off the ground. Not sure what you need to remove, but having ample space under the car makes torquing things much easier when you reassemble. Unless you have a lift...

2. Quality 6pt sockets. I was gifted a Snap-on set and you can see the difference when you tighten the nuts and bolts they don't mar the surfaces at all.

3. Quality ratchets. I was also gifted a gear-wrench 84t flexible head ratchet set. Made it easy to loosen and hand tighten nuts and bolts easily in tight locations.

4. Torque wrenches and ratchet extension/wobble set

5. Ratchet hand wrenches

6. Nice creeper like this will save your back. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007OAGMYW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B007OAGMYW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=1713835751726239774&pf_rd_r=SJDT6PV9KATYGPZ6M2A0&pd_rd_wg=r87Fu&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=90CGH&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=b9a99791-7374-11e8-a806-f9b7e38934c2

7. Digital caliper. I was always measuring something and I used it a lot

8. Have someone recondition your control arms. I am not sure if you have that situation, but hacking old bushings out of control arms is not a pleasant experience and a time sink. Getting someone with the right tools to remove the old ones and replace them with new ones was money well spent for me. Elephant Racing is local so they did it for me along with inspect my old suspension components and consult me what should be reconditioned vs. replaced.

9. Someone to do a proper alignment and balance.

10. Lots of patience, time, garage space

I have a 993 and this is what it was like...

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/1024622-samurai_k-s-wrench-log-of-upgrades-and-restoration-of-my-97-993-coupe.html#post14466181

[Lake Guy]

I took on this task knowing I was going at it without any experience. I also wanted to do it just to see how it was done. The front was relatively easy and when done I drove the car one summer before doing the rear. I found the rear more complicated but slow and steady. When I was done I didn’t have my engine (still at rebuilt shop) so I couldn’t set height, align, etc. And 15 hrs quoted by the OP? No way for me - more like 15 weeks haha. But it was always supposed to be a project.

I eventually sent the car to the shop rebuilding my engine to have the experts finish the install and check through all of my work. My wife was quick to point out that she didn’t want my hobby killing me! I’ll feel far more confident pushing this car knowing it was put together properly.

Would I do it again, we’ll yes I think so, I know a lot more now.

[chuckr]

To me, this would be a no brainer . You are very lucky to have one of the best shops in the South right down the street. Have it done right, have piece of mind that it will be warrantied!

[garment]

+1 on this. I did my suspension in the winter of 2016 following much of Craig's direction, it was a great project and I am really happy with the results. New Elephant rubber all around, powdercoated components, new Bilstein struts, rebuilt calipers by PMB.

Feel free to reach out with any questions - as Craig alludes to, you can't eat an elephant all at once!

Originally Posted by Craig_D

You can do it. You just need to be patient, break down the project into smaller projects.

Look here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/726309-78-sc-elephant-racing-suspension-rebuild.html

[Chain_rxn]

do it yourself if you can dedicate a garage space for unexpected delays. mail your control arms to elephant for bushings / re-fresh. i'm no expert [i.e. mechanically challenged], but i'm in DFW, did it on my '75, and would be happy to help you if you need it.

[Trackrash]

I did mine. I did mine again. Then again. It was a learning experience. I now feel comfortable doing all my alignment and suspension work.

So, if you are the hardcore DIY type, can invest in the proper tools, have the space, time and patience, go for it.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

If you guys had Mayo in your backyard what would you do?

I still have the emails from Tom showing the breakdown on my 915 he rebuilt nine years ago. Tom P, right? Good people. Sent them the trans from Akron.

I have done a lot of my own work successfully except for suspension. Oh, I did it, three times in fact, but it awaits correction. The rear spline thing............

Not saying you can't do it. This is one of those areas though that a pro is worth the coin for comfort - it will be done right.

[jpnovak]

Ed and now Tom run a great shop. The estimate on time is spot on assuming there are no issues found while its apart. Remember there are old cars and things come up that need to be addressed while the car is apart. Your first DIY time is going to be a lot longer. Do you have the time? Do you have the commitment?

The front is very straightforward. You can change the bushings without disturbing the alignment. The height adjustment and torsion bar position will be key to final drive quality. The biggest disassembly issue you may face is separating the ball joints to remove the a-arms. In terms of wear, you are correct that the rubber bushings are likely completely shot. How badly are they worn? In extreme conditions the a-arms will be rubbing the torsion bars and they will require replacement.

The rear is more complicated. ride height, alignment and assembly all tied together. There are many stories of continuous repeats of the process to get the car setup correctly. There are some tricks that shops use to get it right the first time. You are paying for this expertise.

While the physical assembly of parts gets the car back on 4 wheels - IMO the alignment, cornerbalance and overall setup are key to making a 911 handle properly. Your usage of the car will be instrumental in overall settings for toe, camber, caster and ride height. Just something to think about.

Jim Buckley are also has a great shop for suspension work in your area.

[GH85Carrera]

I vividly remember looking at my car with no suspension and wondering what the heck did I get myself into, and will it ever be on the road again. It is total satisfaction to get it finished, aligned, and corner balanced and have a dramatic improvement in steering and handling. I used the rubber elephant racing bushings and love them.