How bad is it??

gengs · 03-28-2003, 03:52 PM

I know this is bad, but how bad is it?

Started car up (so far so good)
Left it to warm up for about 5 minutes
Return to car
Directly behind the exhaust on the floor is a black damp patch
Put fingers into it and it is like a very thin oilly residue
Put had over exhaust pipe and hand gets spotted with dots of the same thin black oilly residue.

So am I correct in thinking this is bad, if so are we talking in major or minor terms.

If you hadn't already guessed my working on engines experience is about a zero.

Many thanks in advance for any diagnosis or suggested remedies.

chrisreale · 03-28-2003, 04:08 PM

Sounds like its running rich. Is your car Fuel Injected? If so, does your MPS hold a vacuum of 15 psi for 5 minutes?

gengs · 03-28-2003, 04:12 PM

Hi thanks for posting,
Its a 73 2.0 with fuel injection. What and where is the MPS and how would I test the vacuum.
Cheers

Engin

sammyg2 · 03-28-2003, 04:28 PM

Almost all 914s will throw out a little watery soot when warming up, but if it is oily that's a different matter.
Does it still run well?

gengs · 03-28-2003, 04:37 PM

Hi Sam,
Its hard to say if its oil, I am only presuming it to be oil. When i put my hand over the exhaust tip the black spots get thrown on to my hand and it is the black spots that I am presuming to be oil.

Am I wrong to make the assumption that it is oil, After puttin my hand over the tip if I rub by finger and thumb together it feels wet rather than greasey.

With regard to running well I have no point of reference as this is the only 914 I have owned (the buying guide said the 73 2.0 was the one to get so thats what i did). The wheels will spin in 1st if pushed and it accelerates in all the gears.

Thanks

John Rogers · 03-28-2003, 04:42 PM

The best way to become familiar with the FI system is to get the FI trouble shooting procedure and all the other info on PBAnders website and then with the Haynes manual go through the car anf ind all the pieces and then do things such as check hoses, connectors and then all the components as per the article. The old FI system we have on the 914s is amazingly easy to work on and maintain once you learn what you have. Taking some digital pictures will help as you can look at them or send to the BBS here to ask questions about. And the info about black patches is right, every air cooled engine I have owned has done that usually due to some oil easing past the rings when shutdown. Good luck.

gengs · 03-28-2003, 04:49 PM

Thanks all, panic was setting in.
So the stuff on the floor is either oil or a result of running rich or both.

My panic came from running it to warm up and seeing this funnel shaped mark on the floor 10" long after 5 minutes

Potter · 03-28-2003, 06:00 PM

Gengs, I also have a 73 2.0 and purchased it knowing nothing about cars (the guy that delivered it had to show me where the engine was). I was horribly intimidated when I started to try to fix and tune the engine. I studied the Haynes manual like a 14 year old with a Playboy. Then I would compare that info with the Clymer manual, the factory manual, and the advice of this austere group of greasebags on the BBS. And after a while I got more comfortable......and then one day it just clicked. I looked into the engine and it all became so obvious. Sooooo, I would totally agree with John Rogers approach....start at 40,000 feet and work your way down. You will learn a lot, maybe find things that have not become a problem YET, and eventually find a solution to your problem (if, in fact, it IS a problem). That's just my two cents!!! Be methodical and HAVE FUN.

Amark · 03-28-2003, 06:23 PM

I have a 73 2.0 & it does the same thing. If I start it and let if idle for a few minutes it will leave a black water & soot mark on the concrete. I think it is from condensation coming out of the muffler as the car warms up. I know it is not coming out of the radiator, so my assumption is that it must be condensation. Nothing to be alarmed about.

mikester · 03-28-2003, 10:24 PM

What's a radiator?

Bruce Allert · 03-28-2003, 10:48 PM

Gengs, I asked the same question last year. Mine does the same thing. Maybe not as bad but at least the radiator isn't leaking into the fuel system!

Do as Potter suggested. Dive into it with the manuals & you'll find it really begins to be fun. If you screw up... no biggie. It'll just be something else to have fun with while getting it right!
bruce

AaronM · 03-29-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gengs
With regard to running well I have no point of reference as this is the only 914 I have owned (the buying guide said the 73 2.0 was the one to get so thats what i did). The wheels will spin in 1st if pushed and it accelerates in all the gears.

Thanks

I would strongly caution against doing burnouts in a 914. From what I've heard, it's very easy to grenade a transmission if you do that. The transmission will last a long, long time if you're nice to it, but it has a very low tolerance for anything bordering on abuse.

Aaron

SGB · SGB's Garage

I really enjoy the sharing of info and experience this site provides. My 2.0 has done this for 60,000 miles. It's carbed, and jetted a little rich intentionally. When the car is cold, there is definite condensation with bits of soot. I ran leaner jets at one time, but have better acceleration and a cooler operationg temp with a slightly rich mixture. I would think the same logic applies for FI setup. Of course, getting the books and doing some contortion exercises is always fun.

3D914 · 3D914's Garage

gengs,

Sound advice so far. The moisture is condensation which occurs when the exhaust cools. Happens to all cars. The black soot is usually a sign that your running a little rich. Better rich than lean. The rich condition can be resolved by finding a shop with the appropriate O2 sensors and adjusting your FI or carb jetting to correct settings.

Nothing to panic about, but better to ask than ignore it.

Enjoy!

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM
I would strongly caution against doing burnouts in a 914. From what I've heard, it's very easy to grenade a transmission if you do that.

Well.... As long as you can actually get the tires to slip, it's not that bad. The real killer, it seems to me, is "shock loading". When the car is not moving, and you wind the engine up to high revs and side-step the clutch. That's the most common time to make holes in parts. If you can get the car moving, even a bit, and then torque the rear wheels loose from the pavement, it shouldn't be an instant tranny death...

Talk to Z about that, he used to like turning his rear tires into smoke when he had the 3.0 Six conversion. Took him quite a while to kill a transmission, and that one was old and tired before the conversion!

--DD

gengs · 03-31-2003, 11:18 AM

Hello all a quick update on "how bad"

Only spun the wheels a couple of times to see if it could be done, they did so I don't do it any more.

Thanks for all the encouragement and posts.

I have resolved that when its winter I will be confident enough to take the engine out and rebuild it.

As I figure that by then it will need it. As something entirely new started to happen today-

The sun came out, left the dull car at home and took to the office the 914, trip is about 50 miles on the motorway.

Noticed in the rearview mirror that if I load the car in 5th at speed that the car behind get a nice puff of smoke and the same happens when I lift of the gas at speed the same thing happens. Did it a couple of times and it could be bluish though its hard to tell through the rear screen.

This I know is bad, but only because people tell me this is bad, what actually causes this and can I do anything about it before the winter gets here.

Dave Bell · 03-31-2003, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by AaronM
I would strongly caution against doing burnouts in a 914. From what I've heard, it's very easy to grenade a transmission if you do that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Talk to Z about that, he used to like turning his rear tires into smoke when he had the 3.0 Six conversion. Took him quite a while to kill a transmission, and that one was old and tired before the conversion!

DD beat me to it... the number of times Mike did a burn out in his six... I probably can't count that high.... I was in the car a couple times myself when he did them.

That tranny is stronger than you think...

- Dave

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Smoke when you load up the engine is likely rings. Not a huge problem, generally, until the compression drops and you get lots of blowby. Smoke when you coast in gear with the throttle closed is usually exhaust valve guides. They're a non-issue, until they cause the valve to overheat and the valve head pops off. That's when large holes get made in expensive parts....

--DD

chrisreale · 03-31-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave at Pelican Parts
They're a non-issue, until they cause the valve to overheat and the valve head pops off. That's when large holes get made in expensive parts....

--DD

Dave, do you know something about this?

gengs · 03-31-2003, 03:42 PM

Aaah I see said the blind man...

So in the mean time treat it nice and it should treat me nice.

Thanks for the advice Dave, based on what you said about rings and guides I found this http://www.peebles34.freeserve.co.uk/Pages/Engine%20Health%20Check/Oil%20Consumption/Oil%20Consumption%20-%20Blowby%20&%20Valve%20Guides.htm which definitely opened my eyes to what goes on inside the engine.

Thanks again