Northstar 4.6L V8

[Tht1KSguy]

Hello everyone. I've been lurking for quite awhile soaking up all I can. As the title says I've got a Cadillac Northstar V8 sitting in my garage at the moment. I'm thinking of putting it into a 914 and of course that's why I'm here. I haven't been able to find anywhere on the web where one has been done before so that makes me wonder if it will fit in there? The DOHC layout is quite a bit wider, I know smallblocks fit once the waterpump is relocated and this engine only weighs just over 400lbs. This is where I think the Northstar swap would shine. The water pump is on the back of the engine (as installed in the 914) Therefore making the combination shorter. My problem is it's been about 5yrs since I've even seen a 914 up close so I don't exactly have one around to take some measurements off of. Would this now put the waterpump through the trunk or is there space between the bellhousing and the wall of the trunk? Originally I was going to put the engine into a Fiero... but I just can't bring myself to buy one. Not to mention the 914 is quite a bit lighter. And a Porsche. Last question. Looking at the gear ratio chart ppl have posted are there 2 different r&p available? If so which cars did they come in? 4.428 & 3.857 are the ratios i see. Any input is appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[robphelan]

you could put it in my 914, i wouldn't mind... honest.

[SGB]

wow....
Yeah, I've got a small submarine reactor sitting in my garage at the moment, duh....
That will be really cool, no- more like just bloody scarey. How many horses in that thing? I thought i remembered something like 260. Damn!
Regarding water pumpIlocation- I beleive there is adequate room- The rear trunk is pretty shallow. Most of the engine is not much taller than the trans, which is under the trunk floor. I'm sure anyone here (including me tomorow) would be glad to post a few pictures of specific areas if you can describe what you want to see.

[JEM]

I have been thinking about this swap for quite awhile also. I think the water pump will hit the trunk wall. Kennedy dose make an adapter and flywheel to mate it to the 901. I have not been able to find an engine locally to measure. Would you mind measuring your engine from where it would bolt to the trans to the front of the crank pully ? I think this would make a very nice swap if it will fit without hacking up the car.

Jerry

[SGB]

Hey-
I measure ROUGHLY 19 1/2" from front of fan shroud to front edge of trans. Here is a picture which shows where I measured (well I was gonna draw a line on the picture but I don't want to take that long. It seems pretty obvious in the picture since there is no FI to try to see around.

[Tht1KSguy]

Alright, I took some measurements of the engine. From the bellhousing flange to the front of the crank is 23". The width is 28". From the centerline of the crank to the highest point on the engine is 17". I think it would need at least 9" from the bellhousing flange on back to clear the pump and thermostat housing. I would think the Kennedy adapter would be 1/2" to 1" thick? Anyone used one of these to know how much it would set the engine forward? Currently the intake would face the rear in the stock setup but the manifold is dry (no water goes through it) and is symetrical so can be flipped facing forward if there is more room up there. Also throttle linkage may be a concern facing the rear.

The engine makes 300hp @ 6000rpm and 295ft/lbs & 4400rpm. On 87octane without headers. Stiffer valve springs bring the rev limit easily up to 7500rpm. All forged internals. Will run an aftermarket programmable efi. Haven't decided which one yet.

[JEM]

Thanks for the measurements. I think it will fit with moving the trunk wall back for water pump clearence. In the Kennedy catalog they have a length of 29 inches for the SBC. It seems to me the water pump on the Northstar is a much eaiser problem to solve than on the chevy, I never liked the remote pump setup on the chevy conversions.

Jerry

[sammyg2]

The kenedy adapter is somewhere around 1/2"thick. With a chebby conversion the transmission is moved back about 1 1/4" for extra roon, it doesn't huet the axles or suspension at all/. If I were you (and you're glad I'm not) I'd call Renegade Hybrids and ask them some questions. If anyone's BTDT it's prolly them.

[cshogen]

Originally posted by Tht1KSguy
The engine makes 300hp @ 6000rpm and 295ft/lbs & 4400rpm. On 87octane without headers. Stiffer valve springs bring the rev limit easily up to 7500rpm. All forged internals. Will run an aftermarket programmable efi. Haven't decided which one yet.

Stop it! You're killing me!

My In-Laws are Caddy people and I always thought the Northstar would be a perfect transplant. Light, free revving, not too big, not too small... DO IT MAN, DO IT!

[-P-]

That would be really cool. How about a W8???

[Tht1KSguy]

I have a hard time paying $500 for a plate that goes between the engine & tranny. I'm considering having my own machined. (I'm a mechanical designer by trade) As some of you may know the starter on this engine is in the valley of the cylinder banks under the intake. I'd rather use that starter and a billet flywheel. Probably mate a 7.25" 2 disk Quarter Master clutch to the combination. Definately will take some figuring but I think I'd be happier with it in the end.

I just got back from looking at a 914 here locally. That was one of the saddest cars I've ever seen. He stuck a floor jack under one of the rear jacking points so i could take a look underneath. The "crunch" told the story. That sound of crumbling rust just make me cringe. Amazingly the doors still shut correctly (didn't bother to take the top off). I was glad to find out I actually can fit inside (i'm 6'4) I had read threads that ppl fit but i was leary. The hunt continues. I'm thinking of spinning the intake around so i can get an idea of how much room it would need in front.

Ryan

[Will98D]

This would be a cool setup. If you are going to sweat the $500 for the right adapter plate you may want to reconsider doing a Fiero... almost everything about one of these is pretty expensive because of the P-word. I'm an automotive product engineer, so I know somewhat of what you're saying, but if the thing makes it mate up properly it will be well worth it.

[Tht1KSguy]

I'm not sweating the fact it costs $500 or that they've done they're homework to make a good product. Just that for a few measurements and 15min of drawing I can have the same thing done at the machine shop for probably less than $75. I'm a firm believer that if someone had a company that made quality Porsche parts at "real" prices instead of the insanely inflated ones I see. People would flock to them in droves. Not that I plan to start that company anytime soon. If I buy a set of pistons or rods that are dimensionally similar, say one for a Chevy and one for a Porsche I expect their price to also be similar. We know in the P-car world this is not the case. I call that gouging at best. I raise the BS flag everytime I hear "P-car parts and services are high to keep the rif-raf out". I say the people keeping prices artificially high for their own benefit are the rif-raf sir. OK OK... I'll step away from the mic now before I get booted off the forum on my 4th post

PS I'm allowed to hijack my own thread

[FLYENGINE_1@JUN]

I AM THINKING OF DOING A CONVERSION ON MY 911 TO CHEVY 8 BUT NEED TO KNOW WHO MAKES THE ADPATERS. THANKS

[skline]

Rod Simpson, Kennedy Engineering, Renegade Hybrids all make the conversion parts. As for the Cadillac motor, it has been done. There is a guy here in Santa Ana wanting to sell a complete 4.5 caddy motor turn-key with the adapter for a 911 for $2000.00. He had it in a 75 911 so I think the adapter would fit on a 914 also.

[FLYENGINE_1@JUN]

skyline thanks i really needed the help. I HAVE A 914 AND ALSO A911 THAT I AM GOING THROUGH COMPLETLEY. I WOULD LIKE TO STICK WITH THE SIX BUT ITS TO EXPENSIVE TO REBUILD.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

On the ring and pinion ratios, the one is standard. (7:31, I think?) The other was installed in the ultra-rare Sportomatic transmission. And I do mean rare! Only 25 914-6es, as best as we can tell, were offered with Sportos. (There were supposedly also a few prototypes.)

--DD

[John2kx]

KS,

I run a Renegade conversion with 350 chevy and will be glad to take any measurements for you. I've included a pic of my complete drivetrain ready to install.

If you can give me a reference point from my engine, I'll be glad to give you the clearance from trunk area.

SammyG2 has a good point with respect to the chevy v8 being moved back 1-3/4" to clear water pump and harmonic balancer.........this is to your advantage.

Note: drivetrain in pic is installed in car.

Let me do a little digging. There was a guy looking to install a newer Ford engine in a 914 and was requesting measurements. I believe it was on one of the yahoo 914 groups. I'll get back with you on those findings.

John

[John2kx]

another angle

[John2kx]

another