914 starters when warm

[captjm]

It seems when I have driven the 914 for a long period of time and stop for gas or food the starter will not turn over. I have had the same trouble with my first 914 25 years ago. Push start always gets it going. I believe when the engine gets to normal to warm engine temperatures the starter will get heat soaked and will not start until the engine has cooled down. 25 years ago on the my first 914 I installed a kit that had a start relay that shortened the power lead to the starter. The theory was to keep the voltage drop to a minimum. This kit never fixed the problem. Has anybody else had this problem? Has anybody changed the starter motor to a high torque motor and did it solve the problem?

[RandyLok]

My $.02 since nobody else is stepping up...

The "hot start" relay kit is a band-aid. Now I won't debate it's a potentially good idea. But a healthy wiring system (good wire, clean connections, good grounds) does not need it. After all, that circuit does not run the starter, but only the solenoid. When the solenoid engages, it becomes the relay for the starter motor, where the real current draw happens.

So, I contend that something is simply dirty or unhealthy in your system. It could be wiring, connections, grounds... Or maybe even a solenoid... perhaps rapping on it with a hammer will make it work, etc....

First, check out the wiring and clean all the connections and make sure the grounds are good.

If that fails and you think the starter is suspect, then by all means go with the high-torque mini-starter. There's a good vendor on Ebay. It's a good product (and a good upgrade, period), and yes it has solved the problem for a lot of people.

[captjm]

If it were a a bad connection I believe the problem would occur cold or hot. Since this start problem occurs only when the vehicle is very warm, my theory is a hot soaked starter or perhaps just a bad starter. I am just wondering if there are any teener's out there has had the same problem. Thanks Randy for your comments-

[RandyLok]

Yes and no.... Dirty connections with higher than normal resistance can get worse with heat. Cleaning them is worthwhile anyway.

Yep, others have had the problem. Some have had luck rapping on the solenoid. Try it... If it works you've located the trouble.

I think the high-torque mini-starter is a great upgrade over the stock starter. Might solve your problem. Usually I will nail the problem down before throwing parts at it to see - but I wouldn't be disappointed with that upgrade even if it didn't fix the problem.

[Joe Ricard]

Take the easy way out 1st.
clean up the connections at the battery, starter, including the ground strap.
Pull back a bit of the insulation and you may see some corrosion on the wire strands. Do yourself a favor and get a new cable. Best is to go to boat store and get them to make you one with soldered connectors. You will be amazed and how well the rest of your electrical components begin to work.

[Brother]

This is common with old starters on 911's.

The 914 starter seems to be in a little more open area than the 911.

Electrical connectors and wires are probably part of the problem, but old grease covered starters don't help. Clean it off and see if that helps.

[bam_bam07]

i have the same problem in my 73 914. i heard its becasue of the location of the fuel pump. when it gets hot and sits, there is a small vapor lock in it. i have heard of other 914s, such as your with the hot start problem, and i heard a remidy is to relocate the fuel pump to the front (like the 75/76 914's). this way there is not as much heat, and the fuel pump will give more fuel to the engine on a hot start. i have relocated the pump on mine (because it still starts well, just not as well as a cold start) so i cannot actually claim this to be solution, but as i said, i have heard of others who have done this with great success. Maybe others will say this helps.

[Brother]

if the starter doesn't turn over, it is not vapor lock.

While unrelated, it is still a good point.

[bam_bam07]

ahh, i skiped over that. my starter works fine, but just takes 3 times to turn over instead of the 1 when its cold.

[Tidybuoy]

I had the usual "hot start" problem several years ago. I replaced the starter with a 911 starter which was reccomended by my "914 Tech Tips" book. The problem was completely solved and my car has started up the 1st time ever since.

Vern

[campbellcj]

BTDT. First off, check and clean ALL of the ground points on the car. If that doesn't resolve it then you -might- need a new starter and the heavier-duty (later) 911 version is a good choice.

Another old trick is to whack the starter with a bat or mallet etc. if it seems to be hanging up. If it turns after that, then it's likely shot.

Another strong possibility with flaky starting issues is the electrical portion of the ignition switch. Usually that would happen whether cold or hot, though, and jiggling the key could help get the connection made.

[jonrunaas]

My 914 had a similar problem. It would start instantly when cold, only to leave me stranded with a completely non-functioning (wouldn't even click) starter whenever I would stop. Though it sounds unrelated, the problem was greatly reduced when I replaced my original transmission ground strap with a nice clean new one. Unfortunately, I still had the problem from time to time (instead of all the time!). I wired up an auxilary ignition straight from the battery to a push button to the starter (not safe, I know, and I eventually took it out) which would occasionally work when the key would not (if the key didn't work I would crawl under the car, switch the leads from the key lead to the bypass lead). Though crude, it was similar to my undestanding of the high power relays, and it wasn't a consistent fix. When nothing completely solved the problem, I stumbled upon a tech forum someplace on Pelican (which I can't seem to find now; I can never get the stupid "search" function to work worth a darn) that explained the problem. It is my understanding that the way the starter system works on 914s lets a little bit of electical feedback go through the system after the key is released, which eventually corrodes the contacts inside the starter selenoid. This corrosion increases electrical resistance inside the starter, and heat also increases resistance. The two combined make the starter dead when hot. The article I read suggested the way to fix the problem was to wire in a diode to the starter system, that stops the electrical feedback from fouling the contacts. In order to completely destroy any trace of scientific method, I decided to install this diode and at the same time install a high torque starter. While I can't say which modification fixed my problem, since doing those two things I haven't had any problems with hot starts, even after extended 85mph driving at 95 degrees across Nebraska's I-80....which would constitute getting the motor hot!

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post....

[jonrunaas]

One more thing, before going to the high torque starter I went through about 2 or 3 stock "rebuilt" starters from Napa, O'rileys, etc....each would solve the problem for about 6 months, then it would reappear. Had zero problems for 2 years now.

[captjm]

I replaced the starter with a high torque starter and cleaned all the ground contacts. I'll let the gang know when I get brave enough to take it on a 2 hour drive, get it good and warm to see if it will start.
Thanks for all the input-

[Tobra]

Originally posted by Tidybuoy
I had the usual "hot start" problem several years ago. I replaced the starter with a 911 starter which was reccomended by my "914 Tech Tips" book. The problem was completely solved and my car has started up the 1st time ever since.

Vern

+1

When I called to check on the price of the 914 vs the 911 starter, I told the guy what the heck, you get what you pay for, I want the stronger one. He liked my attitude and gave me 10% off

[Joe Bob]

Try pulling the starter and checking all conections and the cable....look for cuts in the cover and corrosion. Open up the solenoid and check the grease.

I also have good luck with the high HP SR68X Bosch starter used in the 911. If your ever stuck, a good whack on the solenoid usually will free it up.

[chilli]

Originally posted by mikez
Try pulling the starter and checking all conections and the cable....look for cuts in the cover and corrosion. Open up the solenoid and check the grease.

I also have good luck with the high HP SR68X Bosch starter used in the 911. If your ever stuck, a good whack on the solenoid usually will free it up.

I agree with the solenoid grease. If it has never been checked or changed it is very suspect. I will bet numerous starters have been changed and the grease has hardened.

Of course grounds power etc also are suspect.

mike