914 with a Motorcycle motor concept?

[911st]

I love 914's.

I also love the sound of a motorcycle race motor spinning over 10k rpm with sequential shifting.

It seems like the 914 is set up perfectly to fit a bike motor in it. Has anyone done this?

Do we think we could get a 914 like this down to 1500 lbs?

Wonder how we could get reverse in it?

Any thoughts?

[URY914]

You're smokin' some good ****....

[911st]

As I think about this I am thinking 1500lb 914 w a 1300cc Hayabusa.

Here is some food for thought: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/240685/smart_car_vs_ferrari/

[SirAndy]

Originally Posted by URY914

You're smokin' some good ****....

I agree ...
Andy

[911st]

Paul,

Love your car and have been to you site before.

Can I ask about what it weighs?

[TFI]

http://thekneeslider.com/motorcycle-powered-cars/

...and I lost my link that I had for the reverse gear for the GSXR/Motorcycle transmission. It went straight into 930 ouput shafts and was designed for legends cars and sand rails/dune buggies.... (of the single seat, sub 500lbs variety)

The setup is out there, adapting it wouldn't be too difficult.

(I'm not going to say whether I am for or against the idea, but maybe some of what I've found will be useful to you)

[911st]

Now we are talking. Great info. I did not think about the Legends. They may have solved the reverse issue already. Wonder about a LSD.

How light can we make a 914 w a motor cycle motor?

[911st]

Seems the dune buggy crowd has been doing this. Here is a thread with some solutions to reverse.

The best set up seems to be a Jeffco system. Not sure about a LSD yet.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37921

[911st]

Two builders of forward / reverse hear boxes.

http://www.jeffcotransmissions.com/jeffco_revdiff2.htm
http://www.rpmgearboxes.com/

[911st]

Might be more options in these.

Spool: Homebuilt, no differential, chain driven, cheapest way to go.
Transworks: Has reverse, inboard brake option, direct drive. $2295
Sand Bullet: Has reverse, inboard brake option, direct drive. $3995
Quaife CD Axle: Chain driven, reverse. $3195
Quaife POWERtec: Has reverse, direct drive (not shown on website). $4795
JEFFco Reverse Diff: Has reverse, chain drive. $3500
JEFFco Reverse Hub: Has reverse, chain drive, no diff. $2500
Roberto Gearbox: Econo unit for under 50HP. $1250

[BURN-BROS]

http://www.hartleyenterprises.citymax.com/page/page/1562069.htm

I know this is drifting from your original post but I would think you would need to get the car down to 1200 lbs in order for a N/A Hayabusa to be happy.

The V8 Hayabusa has displacement on it's side and a fully dressed weight of 200 lbs. The torque figure are low enough you could even run the 901 box.

Downside is cost though...but it's similarly priced medium/high tier 911 engine build.

[BURN-BROS]

[911st]

I would sell body parts for that motor.

If I was to do something like this, half the fun is the 6 speed close ratio sequential shift transmission.

Wonder if it would make any sense to cut up a front wheel drive transaxel and just keep the dif and one forward and the reverse gear. Probably more weight to just deal with.

Yes, weight may be the enemy. Cornering loads may creat oiling issues to as the motorcycle motor is used to leaning, not cornering flat.

[BURN-BROS]

The hayabusa/early mini combo is a pretty cool mod, especially the ones that place it behind the rear seat. This seems to be a relatively popular mod in europe.

[911st]

I saw the mini in a kit car mag years ago. How cool would that be?

I have been keeping my mind open to what might be an acceptable doner car or alternative to work around California's smog laws. Any pre 76 should work. Except for the possable weight the 914 seems to a good lay out for a motorcycle motor.

I wonder if the mini has a reverse set up.

[BURN-BROS]

you tube stuff mini

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6-REHCdhh8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGp_E61HqnQ

caterham 7 v8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNDGx8NNP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScWPKKepKWc&feature=channel_page

[URY914]

Originally Posted by 911st

Paul,

Love your car and have been to you site before.

Can I ask about what it weighs?

It is somewhere around 1350 pounds

[911st]

I am impressed. Very nice.

[roblav]

I've started studying how to do this... using my 914 tub now sitting in a rotisserie makes it easier.

I've also done this three times before in formula racecars - one with Hayabusa, one with Yamaha R1, and last one with 2013 ZX-10R.

A few issues in the 914:
- As others have stated, weight needs decreased. The new drivetrain will be at least 300 lbs lighter then the 914 and 901 box. I think 1500 lbs maximum is the target.
- A wet sump has worked very well turning > 2 G's in the formula cars. Dry sump is more complicated and adds weight.
- Chain length - If I recall my measurements, the engine sprocket to diff sprocket will be about 17 inches if the engine is placed fairly cl;ose to the firewall. I'd be happier if it were longer.
- Rear sprocket size will have to be quite large. A typical setup on formula cars using 13" wheels is 15 tooth front and 48 tooth rear to get to about 145-150 MPH. 15" wheels will require an even larger rear sprocket, and there may not be anough room to clear the trunk floor.
- The front mount to the firewall will be easy... similar to a 914/6. What is nice here is that the mount can be integrated with tube triangulation to the rear suspension legs to stiffen up the box sections of the chassis behind the engine.
- The rear mount can be integrated into the differential cage and attached to the 901 box chassis mount.
- The normal motorcycle radiators are already curved, and that curve matches the front of the trunk.
- An oil cooler will be a requirement.
- Taylor/Taggert used to make a nice Quaife LSD that had Hewland MK9 stub axle distance. These had provision for Porsche 930 type CV's (if I recall).
- The motorcycle dashboard can be placed where the normal gauges go.
- A couple options on wiring - either integrate the 914 wiring harness into the engine harness or use a complete motorcycle harness and extend the wires. Option 1 is easier.
- Shift mechanism will need built. I prefer a hand bump type over the expensive electronic versions, but those are also cool.
- The engine clutch is easy... add stiffer springs and use a cable.
- Throttle is easy too with a cable.
- A decent air intake should be fabricated.
- Exhaust is easy... stainless Sidewinder type will work.

Now to decide whether to do it or not! Anyone want a 3.0 911 core?

[micheloaks]

ZCars for Bike Engine Classic Minis, race, rally, kit, classic and project car builds.