Hot 914 *race* engine

campbellcj · 11-24-2001, 10:41 PM

OK...the "hot 914 street engine" post was lots of fun.

But 4th gear burnouts (they just mean you don't have enough traction) and trolling around town on cool Sunday afternoons don't really impress me.

What would impress me is an engine that can do, let's say, 0-100 in twelve seconds or so (in a 914, duh!), and run at 5K RPM's and above for, let's say, between 20 minutes and 4 hours per session. Possibly several times per day. With 90+ degree ambient temperature.

In other words, balls-out WOT, 100+ MPH, under high g-loads and temperatures, all day long.

And it would be real nice if it could survive 10-20K miles or more of this. I could live with a rebuild every 3-5 years I guess.

And be "Porsche-based", or, ahem, at least competition-legal in a Porsche vehicle (i.e., no Chebbies, Mazdas, Nissans, etc.).

I know I can do this with a 911 engine of various flavors and price points. What kind of parts, time and money would go into a full race Type-4 engine? What kind of power would it put out and what class would it be in under PCA/SCCA/POC rules? (yes I've read John Roger's article here and seen his fantastic Big-4 race car in person several times too...looking for additional info & opinions.)

Cheers,

J P Stein · 11-25-2001, 08:26 AM

There is a really informative article on a 914/4 racer in the Dec 2000 issue of Excellence. The car itself is as far out out the edge as any, but that's what it took to win in IMSA GTU. Iff'n you don't have the copy, lemme know.

The blurb on the engine is decent, there are pics and if you "read between the lines" there is some good stuff there....particularly the parts about the leaking rear main seal and 25 amp draw for pumps and fans.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · 11-26-2001, 06:17 AM

I do believe that a 2563would do it, with 12:1 CR, twin ignition (distributorless, direct fire)and V V T DOHC heads would do the trick....Yep thats 16 valves, and 102mm pistons and cylinders, nikisil plated, all coupled to a 78 stroke crank..

Gimme about a year and we'll see about it. The heads are in the works right now. The design work is almost done. The cylinders are 2 weeks from being done and the 78 stroke billet crank is sitting on my desk.

With these heads, no longer is stuffing a big crank into a TIV the problem, we can go to 90mm easily, since there is NO CAM in the case AT ALL.

Not bragging, just wanted to let you guys see that more technology is in the works, these engines are not forgotten about.

URY914 · URY914's Garage

Jake,
That sounds like a killer motor but it wouldn't be legal in SCCA or PCA. Get back down to earth and get out the rule books.

SteveStromberg · 11-26-2001, 07:15 AM

Jake can you post a photo of those heads? I have been looking for your letter but it never arrived you may need to check it out. Steve workshop # 818 709 8029 after 10am west coast

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Chris, if you want that I can point you to a car that does it already. This is the "Newlin's skate board" mentioned elsewhere--1500 lbs, 200+ HP from a ~2.0L Type IV, spins to 7000 RPM all day, holds lots of Northern CA PCA track records... And it's for sale. (Bring money!)

Not exactly real durable, but if you want the power you've gotta give up something.

--DD

campbellcj · 11-26-2001, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave_Darling
Chris, if you want that I can point you to a car that does it already. This is the "Newlin's skate board" mentioned elsewhere--1500 lbs, 200+ HP from a ~2.0L Type IV, spins to 7000 RPM all day, holds lots of Northern CA PCA track records... And it's for sale. (Bring money!)

Not exactly real durable, but if you want the power you've gotta give up something.

--DD

Dave, I think I had heard of that car and that it was for sale (maybe from Brad?) Is there a web page or ad w/ details on the car? Do you know what price ballpark?

Durability is not a really major priority (within reason) for my next teener, but reliability is...in other words periodic "planned" overhauls or major servicing would not be nearly as much of an issue as frequent failures on the track.

Brad Roberts · 11-27-2001, 04:46 PM

Chris,

When are you going to show up for a track event that we attend ? I'll put you in a completely reliable 2.0 factory injected car that spanks most of the 911SC's and spins 5400 all day (never lift)

What happened to learning to drive ?? I thought I beat that into everybody.

B

sammyg2 · 11-27-2001, 06:28 PM

Chris has an injected 2 liter in his ravenna green 914. It has good suspension, and sticky tires. He does know how to drive. he gets so much seat time that most locals are jealous (including me).
I think he is just looking to take it to the next step.

campbellcj · 11-27-2001, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRM9148
Chris,

When are you going to show up for a track event that we attend ? I'll put you in a completely reliable 2.0 factory injected car that spanks most of the 911SC's and spins 5400 all day (never lift)

What happened to learning to drive ?? I thought I beat that into everybody.

B

Hey, I'd love to meet up with some Bay Area guys for a track event sometime. It is kinda tough for me to make it all the way to Laguna or Thunderhill though -- would have to plan pretty far in advance for a road trip like that. Buttonwillow is more do-able on short notice.

I am a true believer in learning how to drive down in the 'low-powered'/stock classes. I've had a blast so far.

One thing that didn't go as I hoped though is that the local POC events here get almost zero 914/4's, and only a couple 914/6's regularly. At some events I'm the only 914 period. And PCA in So Cal has almost zero track events, I think a couple time trials a year and one club race, at most. Mostly autox stuff. It seems like you guys up north have a way more active 914 community in terms of track events.

Running the stock 2.0 is huge fun, but it does gets pretty frustrating sometimes to be the lowest HP guy on the track by almost half...and a lot of the guys running POC down here have 200-400HP cars. I can hang with or beat some of them in tight corners but they pull me by 30 mph on the big sweepers and straights. Arm gets tired from waving so much...

Since neither of my current cars is a good base for more of a pure track machine (too CW-ish to cut up or wreck) I still plan to most likely sell one or both and get something else...undecided if it will be a race-prepped 914/4, 914/6 or still possible it could be an early 911 of some form like an R/RS/RSR clone (boo, hiss, sacrilege, traitor...yeah I know).

In the meantime the trusty Ravenna car will be my steed to keep racking up seat time and learning the skills & reflexes. I just hope I don't roll her into a ball or munch the engine in the meantime. That would really suck!

campbellcj · 11-27-2001, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyg2
Chris has an injected 2 liter in his ravenna green 914. It has good suspension, and sticky tires. He does know how to drive. he gets so much seat time that most locals are jealous (including me).
I think he is just looking to take it to the next step.

Sammy...thanks for the thought...but you DO realize who you're talking to don't ya??? "B from Mountain View"...hello...

Brad Roberts · 11-28-2001, 12:24 AM

Sorry that your area is so weak on the 914/4 stuff.

I should have invited you to Buttonwillow this past weekend. I burnt off a brand new set off Hoosiers (we had a ton of track time on Sat. and Sunday)

I forgot I had this logon with PP.

Hey sammy... put a V8 in the SC yet ?

B

sammyg2 · 12-09-2001, 12:36 PM

Lemme guess, is he Brad? It didn't click at first. Hey brad. long time no read.

No V-8 in the SC, still sorting out the injector system so that it runs perfect. I can't afford to have a cylinder go lean under boos......oops :-)

Efrain68912 · 12-09-2001, 02:30 PM

When is the next POC STS race, Chris? I may like to take my 912 out - I love Buttonwillow. I'd like to get it out before I do my type IV swap.

Efrain
68 912 Coupe

campbellcj · 12-09-2001, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Efrain68912
When is the next POC STS race, Chris? I may like to take my 912 out - I love Buttonwillow. I'd like to get it out before I do my type IV swap.

Efrain
68 912 Coupe

Next one is Jan 12-13 at Streets of Willow. Most of the POC short-track events are at SOW as opposed to Buttonwillow.

I have a whole bunch of So Cal events on my web site calendar here:

http://www.nosubstitute.org/calendar.asp

Cheers,