Having Timing Problems

[ado]

I got my 914 2.0 F.I. finally running , but i'm having a problem with the timing.
I removed the vacuum retard hose, got the rpm to 3500 set the timing according to Dave's fly wheel pic, ( 27* from tdc ). It doesen't seem to stay.
The vacuum unit has two outlets for a hose, but only one ( distributor side) seems to hook up to the throt- body. Any ideas...?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

For the 74 model year, they eliminated the vacuum advance, but kept vacuum retard. They kept the fitting on the distributor dashpot, but eliminated the fitting on the throttle body. There was still one fitting on the throttle body, and it was hooked up to the fitting on the dashpot that pointed back toward the distributor body.

Sounds like that's what you have.

What are the symptoms you have? The timing should be changing with RPM (up to about 3000 RPM, which is why you run at 3500 when you set the timing) and should also change when the throttle is closed.

When is it "not staying"?

--DD

[ado]

I tried timing again today and it seemed to stay..
Last couple of times after timing it went off for some reason. Might have been vac.
problem and seems ok so far..
However, the car skips a little. I pulled plugs 4&3 and they had some oil on them..
if it's valve guides can i change them from underneath ?
and what is the proper level for the temp reading at idle ?
it reads about 12-1 o'clock ( close to 20 min. running) and the engine bay is cooking with some oil smoke in the air.

Thanks Dave....

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

For valve guides, you have to remove the heads. You could possibly in theory do that with the engine in the car, but it isn't worth the hassle.

The "proper" level for the temp gauge depends a whole lot on exactly what sender and gauge are in the car. My best advice is to get an idea for where yours tends to run, and don't worry unless it goes up quite a bit.

--DD

[John Rogers]

what is dwell doing? If it changes, then timing changes which is why I always hooked up a dwell meter when doing Julia's 2l 1974 914. I finally got rid of the points and never had any funny timing issues after that. Note the FI trigger points have to stay. Remember dwell affects timing but timing does not affect dwell.

[TheCabinetmaker]

the VDO temp gages that are typically in the 914 center console have 210 to 230F as the mid point generally I have found.

that may be hot oil.

keep in mind that you can have ok oil temp, but still be cooking the heads (ie dirty cooling fins on cylinders and heads can cause over heat, running wrong timing, wron mixture can also cause heads to drastically over heat, yet oil temp may not be all that bad.

so if you sense that the engine is over heating, as you sem to think it is, do not only use oil temperature as an indicator that all is hunky doory with the cooling system, or operating conditions.

eventually after you get her sorted out, an upgrade to a Pertronix or simular electronic ignition is a good idea, timing stays dead nuts on target, not too expensive.

make sure teh rubber hose that goes to the dizzie is going to the retard port, not te advance port, do not assume it was correctly hooked up. 50 /50 chance it was not hooked up right when you bought the car.

valveguied can only be replaced with heads removed. you could remove them while in the car, but engine removal is SO EASY, and would greatly improve the easy of headwork. you might as well do the whole valve job at teh same time, these cars are known for dropped valve seats, if teh guides are really worn, expect you may well need to replace the seats, if done correctly, replacement of valve seats is a good idea if the head is out for other service. You cant tell if an old valve seat is just about ready to get loose or not, the only assurance is with a correctly installed new valve seat (machine shop must cut a very agressive interferance fit (often tighter than the factory recommendation).

of course that is just my opinion forlonglasting rliability. budget may dictate taking a hance on the old seats, reface them and maybe your good for a long time, maybe.

[ado]

Don't have a dwell meter so i'm not sure on that.
But, i will check out my other options, (points, guides ets.).

Thanks guys....

[TheCabinetmaker]

No dwell meter , no problem, just make sure the points are gapped correctly and the dwell will be pretty much in ok. I recall setting points to .016 inch gap (it has been awhile, got electronic points nowdays)

all the dwell reading does is give you an electircal confirmation of your point gap. the point gap is the variable you have to play with to get the dwell right. if the gap is right, the dwell will be close enough to run fine.

for years I didn't even have a dwell meter, I instead relied on correct gap to set her up.

[ado]

The gap is at 16. When i set my mark at 27* tdc
I found the idle running to low, (6--7 rpm) almost stalling so i adusted the the distributor to run up around 1100 rpm just to keep smooth.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Changing the timing will indeed change the idle RPM. You might consider setting the timing back to 27 Deg BTDC (at 3500 RPM), then opening up the screw on the side of the throttle body until the idle RPM is correct.

--DD

[ado]

Will do.....

Thanks Dave....

[ppccivilian]

My 75 seems to like to run a little on the hot side too about 12:00 - 1:00 on the gauge. IF this is in the 190 to 230 range it is a little on the hot side but I feel Synthetic oil can handle it just fine. What else can be done to get things to run a little cooler? mine is a stock 1.8 with 73 K miles.

-Robert

Originally Posted by TheCabinetmaker

the VDO temp gages that are typically in the 914 center console have 210 to 230F as the mid point generally I have found.

that may be hot oil.

keep in mind that you can have ok oil temp, but still be cooking the heads (ie dirty cooling fins on cylinders and heads can cause over heat, running wrong timing, wron mixture can also cause heads to drastically over heat, yet oil temp may not be all that bad.

so if you sense that the engine is over heating, as you sem to think it is, do not only use oil temperature as an indicator that all is hunky doory with the cooling system, or operating conditions.

eventually after you get her sorted out, an upgrade to a Pertronix or simular electronic ignition is a good idea, timing stays dead nuts on target, not too expensive.

make sure teh rubber hose that goes to the dizzie is going to the retard port, not te advance port, do not assume it was correctly hooked up. 50 /50 chance it was not hooked up right when you bought the car.

valveguied can only be replaced with heads removed. you could remove them while in the car, but engine removal is SO EASY, and would greatly improve the easy of headwork. you might as well do the whole valve job at teh same time, these cars are known for dropped valve seats, if teh guides are really worn, expect you may well need to replace the seats, if done correctly, replacement of valve seats is a good idea if the head is out for other service. You cant tell if an old valve seat is just about ready to get loose or not, the only assurance is with a correctly installed new valve seat (machine shop must cut a very agressive interferance fit (often tighter than the factory recommendation).

of course that is just my opinion forlonglasting rliability. budget may dictate taking a hance on the old seats, reface them and maybe your good for a long time, maybe.