Newbie Question...

11-01-2002, 01:06 PM

Hi Folks

I am a new member of this BBS board and new to Porsche 914's and so of course I have a question.
My son and I contemplating the purchase of a '73 2.0 liter 914 and wanted to run the deal by you guys first.

We have found a nice silver '73 that is need of some attention. It is being sold by a knowlegeable long time Porsche enthusiast.
Too many Porsches at his place, so this one has to go. Here are the particulars:

Straight body with rust located on the panel in front of the windshield, and where the antenna exits the body.
Also a small patch on the pillar just behind the one of the doors. No rust under the battery or in the structural area beneath the battery.
Have not looked elsewhere.

Recently rebuilt 2 liter engine converted to dual carbs, runs well at speed but needs more attention in dialing in the carbs.
How important is it that the engine and transmission be original? (I dont know if they are)

Not sure if the transmission was rebuilt, but seems to be fine.

Car comes with a spare transmission, though not sure what condition it is in.

Suspension and brakes are fine, though I am told that it could use rear shocks.

Nice 60 series Bridgestones on original Porsche alloys. Extra set of Pedrinis, though two are slightly bent.

Beige interior, seats and dash in pretty good shape, no carpets though.

Owner states the car will need new rubber seals all around. Seems right as the rear window
is quite loose in its seal and the targa top makes a fair racket when driving down the road.

Car can be a real beauty, given the model year and the appeance group options.
My intention is to make this a fine looking, completely functional, driveable semi daily driver.
The car does need work to get it there though. It is located in California (as am I)

Price is $4000. What do you guys think?

Also, the deal started out with a spare 2 liter engine that ran but was perhaps a bit tired.
It is no longer part of the deal. (I believe it was sold off seperately).
How much (if anything) should be subtracted from the original $4000 for the loss of that engine?

Many thanks for your input and for the fine resourse that Pelican has made available to us.
I know where I will be buying my parts!

Best Regards
Curt

anthony · 11-01-2002, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Straight body with rust located on the panel in front of the windshield, and where the antenna exits the body.

IMO, what you are describing is not a $4000 car. To have someone fix that rust and do a really nice paint job will cost as much as you are going to pay for the car. Have you checked other areas for rust - like under the rockers.

JADP - between $4K and $7K you should be finding exceptionall clean daily drivers. A $7K car will be almost flawless but not concours. A $4K car shouldn't have the rust issues you describe.

BTW - a tired but running 2L engine is probably worth $600.

derek_sf · 11-01-2002, 01:15 PM

does he have receipts for the engine rebuild? what was done in the rebuild?

rear shocks are no big deal.

the rear window being loose is probably not the seal and even with new seals the targa tops tend to squeak. seals all the way around can get quite expensive.

I would say $4k is too much. I think a 2.0 core motor is maybe worth around $500.

derek_sf · 01:30 PM

like anthony says, so much cheaper to buy a car that's "almost there". they are not easy to find though is the problem. maybe you are a body man and can do this car cheap??

there was a '73 or '74 2.0 in socal, silver, seem to be a nice car with some tasteful upgrades, rebuilt motor, etc for $7.5k.

there was also chris C's old '73 2.0 for sale at $7.5k which had a nice interior, good motor, new suspension, new seals, new tires, and a full professional body paint and resto (not cheap). it is a really sweet car, check out http://www.nosubstitute.org/914/default.asp

were you looking for a project car or did you want a nice 914 but then saw this one that needed work?

Paul_Heery · Paul_Heery's Garage

First off, welcome to the board.

Now, I have to agree with my associates here. Based on your description, this is not a $4,000 914. To address the things that you know need to be done can quickly add up. A carpet kit is going to run you $300, shocks are $200, and all the seals are...well, go to the Pelican catalog and see how much the seals will run you. Anyway, you are probably looking at spending at least $1,500 for parts on the things that you know about.

It is also going to run you a few nickels to handle the rust repair and paint. I'm sure that Mike Z or Brad could show you much nicer cars for 4k.

JWest · 11-01-2002, 01:49 PM

And so you don't get scared off, the point these guys are making is that there are plenty of cars out there for that money that are nicer - so make sure get the best you can for that money (if that is what you want to spend).

You want to learn before you buy, not after. You wouldn't want to regret your purchase and have to spend more than you would if you waited and found a nicer example.

Oh, and welcome! This is a great group of people.

John Rogers · 11-01-2002, 02:04 PM

Here's my take on your questions:
Straight body with rust located on the panel in front of the windshield, and where the antenna exits the body.
- Our stock 1974 had a rust spot at the lower edge of the windshield and has grown very little over 4.5 years. Is the windshield area good with no leaks, then don't worry about it now.

Also a small patch on the pillar just behind the one of the doors. No rust under the battery or in the structural area beneath the battery.
- Try to see if it is just surface rust or goes through the metal and if it is just surface rust then it can be fixed easily.

Have not looked elsewhere.
- Look at the rear suspension mounting points (called console) to see if there is rust or cracks.

Recently rebuilt 2 liter engine converted to dual carbs, runs well at speed but needs more attention in dialing in the carbs.
- Are there receipts and what shop did the work? Is their reputation sound? If so, good.

How important is it that the engine and transmission be original? (I dont know if they are)
- For most 914s it will make NO difference if you like the car.

Not sure if the transmission was rebuilt, but seems to be fine.
- Does it shift okay in all gears? Pull the add plug to check the fluid and smell it.

Car comes with a spare transmission, though not sure what condition it is in.
- Very good to have if you are new to 914s.

Suspension and brakes are fine, though I am told that it could use rear shocks.
- Does it corner and handle okay? Shocks can be bought later.

Nice 60 series Bridgestones on original Porsche alloys. Extra set of Pedrinis, though two are slightly bent.
- Original Fuchs are nice to have, extra wheels are good for autocross tires, etc. Bent rims can be fixed for $40 of so.

Beige interior, seats and dash in pretty good shape, no carpets though.
- Buy carpet material from a supply place and sew your own for $25 or so.

Owner states the car will need new rubber seals all around. Seems right as the rear window is quite loose in its seal and the targa top makes a fair racket when driving down the road.
- Rear window is held in with sealer and is easily repaired. Seals can easily cost over $1000 for ALL of them but if you spread out the time to replace them, it's not too bad. Most targa tops squeek and rattle so don't worry about it.

Car can be a real beauty, given the model year and the appeance group options.
My intention is to make this a fine looking, completely functional, driveable semi daily driver.
The car does need work to get it there though. It is located in California (as am I)

Price is $4000. What do you guys think?
Not bad if it is what you want. That is the important thing.

Also, the deal started out with a spare 2 liter engine that ran but was perhaps a bit tired.
It is no longer part of the deal. (I believe it was sold off seperately).
How much (if anything) should be subtracted from the original $4000 for the loss of that engine?
I'd take 400 or 500 off for the missing engine.

Remember this is an old car, parts are not as cheap as you would hope, but they are a blast to own and can be a great learning tool. We bought our daughter's 914 when she turned 16 and she learned to drive on it, work on the engine, brakes and tranny and race with it well enough that she won her class at the Porsche Parade by 13 seconds!

If you like it, buy it. Good luck.

Brad Roberts · 11-01-2002, 02:07 PM

I wish I could find core 2.0 engines for 500$ I would buy them ALL.

I NEVER see them going for anything less than 800-1000$

B

derek_sf · 11-01-2002, 02:16 PM

dang, and I sold mine for $400.

cshogen · 11-01-2002, 02:20 PM

I sold mine for $500... Double dang!

Bruce Allert · 11-01-2002, 04:55 PM

CRAP! where was I when you guys sold the 2.0's for that cheap???

bruce

Brad Roberts · 11-01-2002, 05:05 PM

I dont think they tried that hard to sell them.

Complete engines for 1000k that run and stripped engines for min. of 500$

Finding good heads is not easy.

B

derek_sf · 11-01-2002, 05:09 PM

well mine was 4 years ago for $400, so with inflation figure $500!

it was a good running 2.0 with 153k miles on it. was complete minus the FI. I believe I even used PP to sell it.

don't even ask me about the other 2.0 motor I had and what I sold that one for!

derek_sf · 05:34 PM

< link removed per the request of brad >

(just picture a $500 looking car priced at $3500)

now here is a car which is truly WAY over priced. how can someone say a car like this is in "GREAT CONDITION"!?!

Brad Roberts · 11-01-2002, 05:31 PM

Here is how I describe peoples perception of "things"

If I lived all my life in the ghetto and never really made any effort to get out of the ghetto. I wouldnt know that anything existed outside of the ghetto.

Same thing with cars.

If this guy has never seen a nice 914 (it could happen) then his perception of nice is not the same as ours.

Anybody that tries to sell a 914 with the kelly blue book in their hands is in for a long selling period.

Oh.. stop giving away the links to our resources in this area.

B

gint · 11-01-2002, 05:36 PM

Classic case of "seller requires an education". See it all the time around here. It looks a lot like a $3500 914 I looked at a few months back.

Brad Roberts · 11-01-2002, 05:40 PM

Yep,

these people where sold junk way back and never knew it. The problem is: it will sell to the next person who needs a 914 education.

Oh.. Ginter. I see the Colorado car sold.. did my guy buy it ??

I noticed the seller posted a thank you to MikeG/PK/ and somebody else... no mention of Brad.... LOL silent partner.

Derek, I was joking about the Craigslist thing. Jenny shyu already told everybody about it on Rennlist. Now I get phone calls to look at car posted on Craigslist. Most of the cars are just like the one posted.

B

derek_sf · 11-01-2002, 05:42 PM

I know everyone has a different perspective on things...

but chunks out of the bumper pad, dented rockers, a faded and peeling krylon looking paint job coating everything (chrome, etc), huge holes in the carpet, terribly cracked and wrinkled dash, and dirt and trash on the floor to make it complete! I almost think this is a joke or something.

Brad Roberts · 11-01-2002, 05:44 PM

Come on, thats a nice car for say..... Mexico or Canada.

B

gint · 11-01-2002, 06:00 PM

Brad,

Yeah, the seller told me that your guy bought it. I didn't realize that he had posted a "Thank-You". Thanks for the heads up. Don't know who PK is. Dug must be your guy. I don't think he ever knew anything about you.

I did notice that set of 15x6 Fuchs I wanted isn't on the list. $400 for the 4 with some dog rubber on 3 of them. I'll never be the same after drivin a 3.2 six though. And that's your fault.