JohnJ's 87 924S Rehabilitation

[jjeffries]

You’re selling yourself short: it must be worth at least $4999?

[jjeffries]

What tires are you running Jay?

[Jay H]

$4998 tops.

I'm running Michelin Premier A/S tires in stock sizes. A more comfort oriented tire, but I don't push this car all that hard.

[jjeffries]

Wow, this old gasolline smell is nasty; I'm now way beyond the memories of my Carozzeria Touring Alfa (dash plaque: [I]1958 World Champions[I]) and just feeling a hair nauseous.

I just spent a few minutes in the garage (doors wide open) to look at the fuel hoses in the engine bay. Mine are routed up under the brake booster and across to the rail, as opposed to from under the car to the right inner fender then up and over the exhaust manifold. I'm assuming mine, which avoids the heat of the header, is the later amd safer arrangement.

The PET shows these two (primary supply and return) hoses as having threaded connectors near the joint of the rubber <> hard line crimp, to enable the removal of the rubber section from the hard lines, but on my car I cannot see any such union. Looking at the replacement parts/kits available**, the suppliers provide rubber hose, that - once you have safely cut the factory lines near their original crimps, attach the new rubber sections to the hard pipes using compression fittings, from whence they traverse the engine itself and connect, with correct new metric metal fittings, to the arrival (and departure) ports/devices on the fuel rail. I hope that makes sense.

** In deference to Pelican, to whom I am most grateful for hosting this Forum, one cannot expect them to carry some of the ultra-model-specific stuff which more singularly focused specialists have come up with to keep these cars on the road. I'm not sure if any mention of them will get scrambled by the Pelican censors, but I will understand if they do.

One such 924/944/968 specialist supplier located in Florida shows the kit I just mentioned, plus all the other fuel hoses I'll need to replace, some from Porsche AG, others NLA and thus recreated or made as kits to work with reusable sections of the original parts on the car.

Another specialist which supplies very cool and cost effective alternatives to Porsche factory tools, Arnnworx, wrote an article about the DIY replacement of a 944's (my car's mechanical near-twin) fuel hoses and rightly points out what a big project this is (and one that must be approached with immense care). He explains the different types of hose/pipe connectors available if one is trying to do this job without an open checkbook or access to pieces Porsche AG no longer has available for sale. This is the approach the shop in FLA took for those main supply and return hoses I just described.

Going that route, how much will this - replacing all my rubber fuel hoses - cost? Looks like it will be the best part of $600-700. Ouch! That's not being critical of anyone; Porsche designed a robust, high quality fuel system, and ... you know the rest.

I will first run all this past guru Len Cummings, whose replacement fuel hoses and lines I used in my SC and are extremely nice. In the meantime, I'm hoping the stink in my garage will diminish.

John

[Jay H]

John,

I replaced every single fuel line on my 924S except for one vent line in the passenger side rear quarter panel area (still looked pretty good yet). [Hence the $15k in parts costs total]. It's expensive to replace everything, but we are lucky that Porsche and the aftermarket support these fuel lines yet.

Toughest job was re-fitting the very stiff & wide but short fill tube that goes from the metal fuel filler neck to the fuel tank. Sourced that from the aftermarket and got a pretty nice hose to replace the original which didn't look all that good anymore. Fuel smell inside the car and in the garage is all gone now with the new hoses/lines.

Jay

[jjeffries]

Yes, agreed that's the only way to go. I did that in the SC (easier) and in my Alfa GTV (easiest). I've read of cars catching fire, especially since the alcohol content of fuel was increased, so I take this seriously and will be thorough.

Do you do your own work Jay?

[Jay H]

John, other than the timing belt and water pump, which was the first thing that was done upon purchase, and engine/transmission internals, I've done all the work on the car. That's not saying much about my skills since these are pretty easy to work on cars - almost entry level in my book. Also, the good shops in my area are booked solid and just don't have the desire to tackle 15-20 hour clutch and torque tube replacements.

I cut my teeth on the '79 924 that I had for a couple years as I fought the rust issues (horribly rusty fuel tank, contaminated fuel system, poor start condition, etc., etc.). That helped a bit to have some of that experience when tackling some of the longer jobs like yanking the torque tube. I think I can get a transmission out of a 924/924S in under a few hours if I go quick and there is no rust. Practice makes perfect.

I did feel a sense of accomplishment when the old torque tube came out of the car and was on my shop floor... That was a big job.

As mentioned, I get distracted by wishing to clean up the area I'm working on...that adds to the hours...

It's all done during winter time (which is long here in WI) and are enjoyable projects. The worst is correcting poor mechanic's past work that was messed up. I think I spent 5 hours backing out a cross threaded reference sensor bracket bolt. D@mn, that was tough working...millimeter by millimeter I backed it out with a specialty Vice Grips. Someone cross threaded that at some point. I believe I threw the messed up bolt (once I got it out) about two counties over to the west... It would have been easier to pull the motor I think than try to work in that cramped area by the clutch housing. Just kidding...but not much.

Putting the fresh clutch and flywheel (new from Germany - ouch $) in was fun though and I know it'll probably outlast me.

I go slow and use shop manuals, YouTube and Clark's Garage as my source of assistance to get these jobs done. Again, I don't have very good mechanical skills.

[Jay H]

All this for $30 worth of heater hoses and a $19 Nissens heater core... The heater core was full of mouse cr@p and leaves, so it was worth cleaning out. Heat output on this car could melt metal now...

[911tracker85]

I just spent a few minutes in the garage (doors wide open) to look at the fuel hoses in the engine bay. Mine are routed up under the brake booster and across to the rail

recently did this to an 84. PITA mainly because we had to remove the brake MC and booster. some of the booster bolts were rusted on the INSIDE of the car and fought us all the way. as you say the lines I replaced on the 86 951 run over to the passenger wheel well and not much trouble. dont recall who made the kits that used compression fittings for either of them and nice they include a little tube cutter.

I did feel a sense of accomplishment when the old torque tube came out of the car and was on my shop floor... That was a big job.

I have dropped the transaxle twice and pulled the engine once. for any reason to get to the bell housing, pull the motor.

I will need to tackle the TT bearings on my 84 928 soon. because it is a auto you have to drop the entire rear suspension to then drop the tranny to then pull the TT. sigh....

I'll be pulling the entire dash too. in my case will be gutting this 924S down to the bone to be another track car. think it will be great for a novice/beginner. or for an old guy like me who enjoys beating slow cars as fast as they will go.....

[jjeffries]

Jay and Bob, you're adding immensely to my thread: thank you both.

Jay, by definition, you are now a pretty good 924 tech...someone might even let you improve their 944, too!

What are the symptoms of a bad torque-tube: noisy ball bearings?

I bought this car because I was kinda out of things to do on my SC. Looks like I'll be occupied for some time to come.

John

[jjeffries]

Bob, another question: in that photo where you've pulled the booster, re the fitting you're about to connect, the side sticking up from the bottom: you've added that, right...a compression fitting onto the hard-line/pipe which came with the kit?
I'm guessing the supplier was 944online/Ian's.

Cheers, John

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by jjeffries

Jay and Bob, you're adding immensely to my thread: thank you both.

Thank you for letting me hijack your thread!

Jay, by definition, you are now a pretty good 924 tech...someone might even let you improve their 944, too!

Thanks for the compliment. It's pretty easy work though on these cars. I've made plenty of errors... Rework is the most expensive work.

What are the symptoms of a bad torque-tube: noisy ball bearings?

Yes, at idle, let the clutch out with the car in neutral. If you hear rattling or a fair amount of racket, your torque tube bearings are probably on the way out. Again, the noise will go away if you push in the clutch (which stops the torque tube from spinning). My new torque tube is silent. I went up a 1 mpg with the new tube bearings. There probably was enough drag on the drivetrain with the dry bearings. I spun the drive shaft with the original bearings yet when it was disconnected from the car and man, what a racket...

Not too long ago, there was a 924S for sale on BaT. The auction was pulled due to the seller finding out the car was disabled due to failed torque tube bearings.

Mine lasted about 182,000 miles.

I bought this car because I was kinda out of things to do on my SC. Looks like I'll be occupied for some time to come.

John

Same here. Was kinda done with the '84 911 too!

[Jay H]

And another reason to have Black Seas do the torque tube rebuild is that they will machine the 'nub' on the driveshaft end that inserts into the pilot bearing so that it's back to spec. That needs to fit correctly in order to eliminate any vibration that comes from wear and tear. Once I got my T.T. back from Black Seas, it seemed almost like artwork and too nice to put back in the car. Constantine does good work and it was a huge improvement to get all that back to spec.

[jjeffries]

I've just checked Black Seas' website.....very cool, bookmarked.

[911tracker85]

John,
correct. one on the right I had already cut the tubing and slid on the compression fitting. on left shows me about to cut the tube.

yea, TT bearing failure makes a lot of rattling noise at idle. in my case with an auto that is all the time.... got the set of bearings and this is on my to-do list.

[jjeffries]

Bob and Jay, and any other 924S owners: did your cars come with a rear sway bar? Mine didn't. I realize it was an option.
John

[Jay H]

My car came with sway bars front and rear and window sticker showed that as an option.

[911tracker85]

my 87 944S did not have one and not sure about the 924S, have not been under it ... YET.

but my plan is to put the f/r sway bars, rear torsion bars and shocks, and front springs from my 86 951. will get the koni shock insert for the front.

[jjeffries]

Bob, if perchance your 924 does have a rear sway bar, please think of me as a candidate for buying it. But first I’ll need to save some shekels for the fuel system.

Thanks guys, John

[jjeffries]

This morning I've been looking at the clutch pedal, contemplating a tweak on the adjustment of the master cylinder actuation rod (because I believe the clutch hydraulics are correctly bled, yet I only encounter any real engagement for the last, say 1" of pedal travel.

Is there supposed to be a rubber pad mounted in the hole shown in this photo, and against which the square plate on the clutch pedal would rest?

It sure likes there should be, although I can't find anything in PET. There is a remaining witness mark on the clutch pedal arm where it rests against the bracket (with the hole in the middle, where I think a rubber buffer should be), so it's clearly been this way for some time, before it was parked.

thanks, John