My Engine Eats Coolant

[Ehab]

Okay, so I know this has probably been discussed a zillion times, but I would really like to know what I can do and how long I can wait before fixing this problem (84 944):

-Coolant level keeps dropping (very gradually, about a litre a week).

-Oil dipstick shows 'milk shake', which means coolant is mixing with the oil.

-Exhaust is sometimes white, implying steam.

-There is NO OIL in my coolant though, not that I can see in the expansion tank.

I know the probable diagnosis is either head gasket, or oil-cooler seals. I don't think it is the head gasket, since my compression is fine (between 135 and 145 psi) ... so how do I get to those oil-cooler seals? Are they hard to fix/replace??

Ahmet, since you're working on your oil pan, I guess you would have the freshest memory about where everything is ...
please help.


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Lock Stock '84 944 and two smokin' tires ...

[marksportcts]

It must be the oil cooler seals, as what you describe are the normal symptoms. If your head gasket went, you would know very quickly, ie loss of power, engine noise increase, ect.

[1.2gees]

This is a headgasket problem, unless the cooler seals are also busted.

Cooler seals alone will mix antifreeze with oil, yes BUT it still wouldn't burn either antifreeze! +Oil system pressure is higher than the coolant pressure, so oil would leak into the cooling system, not vice versa.
However it's still possible the oil just didn't work it's way into the expansion tank, but first that's very unlikely, second it STILL wouldn't burn antifreeze!

Anyway, sorry to say, but your head's gonna have to come off, much more involved job compared to oil cooler seals. At that point, I'd consider a valve job, new seals for everything in the front, and oil cooler seals...
Ahmet


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It's all the driver...

[TomH]

I doubt it's the cooler seals. If they were suspect you WOULD have oil in your coolant before ever noticing it in your oil. This was the case with my car when they failed.

And since you say its eating coolant, you have a one way seep from coolant side to oil side. When the engine is warm, your oil pressure will be higher than the coolant pressure, causing just the reverse to happen.

However, once the motor shuts down, you would expect the hotter/higher pressure coolant side to take control and force coolant into the oil.

I never had it seeping into the oil, or if it did, very little did, as it was unnoticeable on the dipstick, or after oil cahnge.

[TheStig]

Somewhere in the lower end of that engine, near the oil cooler, there are 2 hoses that hold oil and coolant....and the seals that keep em from leaking....in that area your car is mixing...take it to a mechanic or be prepared to pay over 2000 for a major engine repair.

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Sorry Officer, my bag of crack fell and while trying to reach it my gun got wedged in between the gas and the brake causing me to speed insanely.

[Ehab]

2000 bucks ... you gotta be kidding to think that I can shell out that amount of money!!!

This brings me to my question again ... how bad is this situation? How long can I 'ignore' this problem without seriously damaging my engine.

The fact that my coolant level decreases could be caused by an undercover leak that I can't see, but I always find 'milk shake' in the middle of my dipstick when I check it ...
That's why I thought that my engine is 'eating' coolant.

I think I'm going to change oil first, and see what happens, if the probelm remains, then I guess I'll deal with it with more rigorous diagnostics.

Thanks all for contributing.

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Lock Stock '84 944 and two smokin' tires ...

[88_944]

I just change my oil cooler seal on my 944 and it was EZ. Just order the seal kit and exhaust manifold seals. You might have to remove the exhaust manifold out to remove the Oil cooler. The parts will be under $50. My 944 was mixing oil in the coolant tank and water in oil pan. It now stop mix in both. I bought this car with the problem, and the owner though that it needed a head gasket job. So I got this car very cheap from him.


[This message has been edited by 88_944 (edited 04-14-2001).]

[lm6y]

Ehab, Eurospec wasn't saying that it would be $2000 to change the oil cooler seals, he was saying to get it fixed quick before you had to buy a new engine for $2000. Antifreeze will corrode all kinds of metal parts, and bearing surfaces like oil, NOT anti-freeze.

[Ehab]

Thanky Imy, so is it true that I would have to take out the exhaust manifold to get to the oil cooler?? Is the procedure for replacing the seals anywhere in the Haynes manual or on the web?

88_944, where do you get the kit from?

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Lock Stock '84 944 and two smokin' tires ...

[88_944]

I got the Oil Cooler seals at PAP part on line http://www.pap-parts.com/pap-parts/products/selecttype.cfm? and the Exhaust maifold gasket you can get at Pelican Parts, heres the part number 944-111-135-01 $7.20. Don't drive the car with the oil and water mixing. You will have more damages to you motor bearing etc.

Here's how the Oil Cooler seals look like.


[This message has been edited by 88_944 (edited 04-14-2001).]

[Blackfoot]

yeah, this 944 coolant mixing with oil issue can fool a lot of people into thinking the car needs a new head gasket. yours still might, but since you don't have a professional diagnosis i'd replace the oil cooler seals first (yuck, removing the exhaust manifold?) and if that relatively cheap fix didn't solve your problem, then looking at the head gasket.

[Blackfoot]

i agree not driving your car in this condition. you might also want to change the oil now to get rid of your chocolate shake, run the engine a minute or so afterwards, then stut it down. at least the oil change would halt any corrosion due to coolant.

[Ehab]

Thanks for the advice ... I will look into it asap.

Ehab

[Ehab]

So no one confirmed .. do I HAVE to take out the exhaust manifold?

E

[Kaos]

I replaced my oil cooler seals without removing the exhaust manifold. It is much easier to do if you remove the power steering pump though. It would probably be a good time to flush the power steering fluid anyway.

If you want my opinion (which you may or may not, but I'm gonna give it anyway) you have a blown headgasket. White smoky exhaust does not come from leaky oil cooler seals.

Get it fixed quick before you kill your main or rod bearings. "Milk shake" oil is never OK, even for a little while.

Kaos 1985/2

[Ehab]

Thanks Kaos, the exhaust is not really white and smokey ... it is only like 'steam' when the weather is cold outside (20-30 F), but when the weather is nice, the exhaust is clear, even when I rev it up.

I changed the oil today, and will order the gasket seal from pp, hopefully they will match the price of the pap-parts people.

Thanks again.

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Lock Stock '84 944 and two smokin' tires ...

[Ehab]

For all of you out there who changed the oil cooler seals ... do I need the Alignment Tool they mention?

[88_944]

No, you don't need that tool. I didn't use it when I put my oil cooler back, but make sure it lines up. Look real good with a good light when puting it in. But make sure that you put some oil on the 2 O-rings seals before the oil cooler goes back in the motor. Dry O-rings might kink.

[MrElmwood]

You real sure you don't have a cracked cylinder head?

[Ehab]

Man, a cracked cylinder head ... you are really pessimistic aren't you!! I really doubt it, since my compression is very close to specifications.

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Lock Stock '84 944 and two smokin' tires ...