ok, not really a 944 question, but it's in my 944..

[Eldorado]

hey guys.. just looking for some general guidance here as far as my stereo deck is concerned.. i replaced all 4 speakers in the car, which got rid of a LOT of the distortion... the 10+ year old sony speakrs just weren't cutting the mustard anymore...

160W each on the front 4x6, and 300W on the rear 6x9's...

i've got a relatively budget pioneer deck that came with the car that sounds decent at low to mid volume.. but up high it starts to get distorted... the deck is only pumping out 35x4 watts.. i am not running an amp...

question 1 - would installing a new deck rated at a higher watt output rating help me in the distorted higher volumes? or does this sound like an other problem...

ok, second part... when i play the music at anything above mid volume, any bass notes... drum beats.. whatever.. all make the lights on the deck dim..... now i read a cause of this somewhere but i cant remember if it meant it was a dirty ground, or the deck wasn't getting enough power (badd connection to the batt?), or whatever..

Question 2 - would getting a deck with a higher Watt output rating solve the slight darkening of the deck?

now, to make this post 944 related..... where on the early 944 would the stereo be grounded?

i think that's all the questions now about this...

[livewirevoodoo]

160w to each 4x9? is that RMS? i have some 80RMS Polk 4x9s with a 50x4RMS panasonic deck. sounds pretty good at high volumes.. i added a filter to pull out the bass as i havent found any 4x9s that can handle it well.

if yours are truely 160w RMS and 300 to the back 6x9s, a higher wattage deck (highest i've seen is 60ish) and a low 300 watt amp will help.

if you are pulling alot of power from the system, when the bass hits you'll see a drop on the battery guage, lights dim, etc... cheapest fix is to keep all your grounds clean.. can also throw in a small capacitor so the battery doesnt take all the strain of the system

[seaboltman]

If your going to try to get cleaner sound out of your speakers, a higher rated head unit isnt going to do the trick. ever wonder why 50x4 amps are soo much bigger than Head Units that are 50x4.? Spend the cash on an amp thats 50x4 and wire the speakers through it. It will sound 10x better, across the board, and you can go louder (if thast what you want).

[Eldorado]

ok..
where would the stereo be grounded? any idea of where i could begin to look?

how would i add a capacitor to it? just in series with the -'ve line? or...?
how would i put a filter on the front 4x6's so it would cut down on the bass? (you're right - they dont handle it well at all - have to fade most of the sound to the rear to help)...

i'm not looking for a huge booming sound that the guy 2 blocks away can listen to - otherwise i would have got a woofer too.... i just want something that i can hear crisply at a mid to moderate volume...

...maybe I'm expecting too much?

[livewirevoodoo]

I bought something like this to filter the bass from the 4x6's:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Tsunami-199Hz-Passive-Crossover-BB199-/sem/rpsm/oid/89602/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
It fits in between the speakerwire and the terminals on the back of the speaker.

For what you are running a 1 farad capacitor should do the trick. I found a 2 farad at circuit city for around $100. Basically, power from battery to capacitor, then from capacitor to stereo (or in my case amplifier). The capacitor also gets its own ground point. As mine is in the rear hatch, I drilled a hole and made a ground point behind the rear carpet next to the tail light ground.

[gorfllub]

A capacitor would not be required in your case. They are generally only needed in extremely high powered systems, especially those heavy on the bass from subwoofers.

Buying a small 4 channel amp is the way to go. Make sure it has an adjustable high-pass crossover built in to filter the bass from the smaller speakers. This is much, much more effective than the little "bass blocker" capicators you wire up to the speakers.

Seaboltman is entirely correct. I have a quality 20W x 4 amp running my system in my car, including a 12" subwoofer! (Granted, it was a $600 amp) All decks are over-rated. They simply can not put out the power they say.

When purchasing an amp, buy from a specialized car audio type store. Buy a "higher end" brand name if you want perfromance. Stay away from the deals that seem too good to be true. Don't buy from liquidators, drug stores, Wal-Marts, etc. For quality reasons, stay away from brands like AudioVox, Jensen, Pyle, and brands you don't recognize. I am not a Sony fan myself either. Brands that seem to have done well (This is just a short list, there are more) Phoenix Gold, Rockford, PPI, JL audio, Xtant, Planet Audio, Orion, and Alpine just to name a few.


Just for reference, my wife and I are certified IASCA judges (International Auto Sound Competition Associtation), and she has a championship sound quality car stereo (Not for volume, but for quality)

Some gratuitious pics of her car is available here:
http://saskjunction.com/stang2/5.htm


Best of luck on your sound adventures!

[legion]

I need to take pictures, but my current setup:

Kenwood head unit and 5 chanel amp.
This amp drives the four "stock" speaker locations, the fifth chanel for the sub is unused.

Door speakers: Infinity Kappa 4 x 6 plates

Rear speakers, (forget the brand) component 3" speaker with separate tweeters.

Then a 4 channel Sony Amp driving the "non-stock" speaker locations.

2 12" Sony subs

2 6" Blaukpunkt speakers

And a 1 farad cap to top it all off.

I'm still playing with the EQ, as the subs are overpowering everything else.

I'm also playing with the idea of building a different shaped speaker box for the subs/6" speakers. I'm also thinking that mounting some tweeter high on the doors will vastly improve the sound.

[auh]

I used to have an 85 Land cruiser that I had the same distortion prob with the speakers. I replaced with Alpine speaks and a Pioneer deck and still had the problem.

The colprit? Was the 20 year old wires running to the speakers. Maybe try to re-wire it with decent wires and that could help? Not positive on this one though

[livewirevoodoo]

Originally posted by Eldorado
when i play the music at anything above mid volume, any bass notes... drum beats.. whatever.. all make the lights on the deck dim..... now i read a cause of this somewhere but i cant remember if it meant it was a dirty ground, or the deck wasn't getting enough power (badd connection to the batt?), or whatever..

Originally posted by gorfllub
A capacitor would not be required in your case. They are generally only needed in extremely high powered systems, especially those heavy on the bass from subwoofers.

Its entirely possible that I am incorrect, but given the fact that Eldorado is experiencing this power draw issue before adding any amp, etc.. What else would ease the strain on the battery besides a capacitor? (Again, I ask more outta ignorance than anything.. All my reccomendations in the above posts were based on what worked for me in my setup and come with the *disclaimer of trying to be helpful)

[Eldorado]

the wires looked pretty crusty.. lol

I snipped the ends to bare some fresh copper, but even then I'm thinking the wires in the car are at least 10-15 years old...

also, the wiring behind my deck is, well.. brutal... the previous owner (or ones before him, i would imagine...) had electrical tape everywhere... I pulled the deck, and cleaned all the connections and re-taped.. but maybe it's time to throw in a better harness? if this is the case - are there standards? like, are all harnesses universal? or..... basically any info you can give me on this would be appreciated...

the sound is awesome for, say, guitar solos... but just blows when u want to get into the harder stuff..

not to mention the dimming lights on the deck.. it's so bad that one person in my car asked if it was a feature!!!! lol to have the lights blink with the music... *rolls eyes*

[auh]

I think best buy sells a universal harness that they put in my 944

[gorfllub]

Legion:
Try using the gain on the sub channels to get them to the levels you want. Equalization is usually a last-resort solution to fix problems that are not fixable in other ways. Consider finding yourself (Buying, burning, or otherwise) a disc with a pink noise track on it. (Simplified, all the sounds in the audible spectrum played at the same volume, at the same time.... sounds like static.)
Using the pink noise, adjust each amplifier channel-set to where they seem to be roughly equal volume. (Make sure all eq's, bass boosters, balance and faders are all at 0 or off) By connecting and disconnecting speaker sets, you should be able to quite quickly get a referenced level for the system. Only after the speakers are volume matched should you mess with the other goodies in your system


LiveWire: Your thoery is indeed correct, its just not the answer in this particular case. A capacitor is required with high current draw. A deck is not considered high current in this case. An average deck will draw up to say... 10 amps of current. A "high powered" deck will usually peak under 20 amps. The dimming of the lights is a sign of voltage drop caused by excessive current draw that the car cannot supply.
This is where the thought of the capacitor comes into play. The problem is this though: Just about any car should be able to power a deck like that at full power all day long without breaking a sweat. If this is occuring at the deck, something else is wrong..... Now the list of potential problems can be quite long, but can usually be narrowed down to:
Car Battery
Alternator / Charging system
Wiring (This is my guess)

I would guess a wiring issue. Possibly a bad ground, but based on the statement of the condition of the wiring, I would say poor connections and/or too small wire gauge. To test this idea, grab a decent sized set of wires. (Oh, 14-12ga should be ample) and wire the deck directly to the battery. My thoughts are the problem should disappear. If not, then you have to look at the charging system.....

As far as re-taping the wires... You re-soldered them all first, right Eldorado?

You gotta remember that stereos are no different than anything else.... its only as good as its weakest link. Wiring and interconnects are always overlooked, but extremely important. Grounds, Grounds, Grounds. Test with a multimeter as well. Reference your meter to the negative post on the battery, then chack the resistance at the ground your deck uses. This should read under 1 ohm. If not, well, you know..... Also, test the voltage at the radio. (Using the radio's power and ground wires) then reference to the voltage at the battery. They should be identical. Test both with the car running or not.

One side-note on this deal.... By adding an external amp, you will be reducing the current draw from the deck itself, (Since the deck is no longer powering speakers directly) it may overcome your blinking display problem.


Hopefully that will get you going, if not, when can go deeeeeeeper into the 12 volt world.

[onZedge]

Back in the old days, when someone else owned our p-cars when they were new, there were (and still are) two power sources to the tape deck. A red wire that powered the unit via the ignition switch and an itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny yellow wire (always "hot") whose only job it was was to keep the clock and station memory presets from being forgotten.

Modern CD/Receivers are sort of opposite. The red wire only turns the unit on and off, but the yellow wire now maintains the memories AND powers the internal amps.

With the addition of a high powered CD/Receiver to the stock p-car wiring, you are now powering all the internal amps of the CD/Receiver with that itsy-bitsy teeny-weenie yellow wire in the factory harness. (makes you say "hmm")

I thought I needed a capacitor to cure muddy bass notes until I realized this. As for sizing the capacitors (one per amp), use the rule of thumb "one farad per one thousand Watts RMS total power" NOT PEAK POWER. A bigger capacitor than calculated is an absolute waste of money because the amp itself is limited to how much power it can draw. Bigger is not better in this case and the extra weight only hurts your lap times. Mount the capacitor in parallel with the amps' power wiring (heavy yellow and black) as close to to the amp as possible. Also, don't pay exhorbitant prices for those flashy super-duper shiny capacitors offered. Buy one direct from the manufacturer if possible. I found United Chemi-Con makes a series of capacitors that will work perfectly without paying for all the hype. Using an industrial grade capacitor looks cool, in my opinion. The high-tech look gives people the impression that you really know what you're doing. I already did the research for you: U36D series rated 16 Volts DC/20 Volts Surge. Their web site is www.chemi-con.com. And finally, you MUST charge the capacitor through a resistor when powering it up for the first time. Once charged, the resistor can be carefully removed. Be wary too of the fact that, even though this is a 12VDC system, the capacitor will store many joules of energy. Enough to easily stop you heart!!

[legion]

Originally posted by gorfllub
Legion:
Try using the gain on the sub channels to get them to the levels you want. Equalization is usually a last-resort solution to fix problems that are not fixable in other ways. Consider finding yourself (Buying, burning, or otherwise) a disc with a pink noise track on it. (Simplified, all the sounds in the audible spectrum played at the same volume, at the same time.... sounds like static.)
Using the pink noise, adjust each amplifier channel-set to where they seem to be roughly equal volume. (Make sure all eq's, bass boosters, balance and faders are all at 0 or off) By connecting and disconnecting speaker sets, you should be able to quite quickly get a referenced level for the system. Only after the speakers are volume matched should you mess with the other goodies in your system

I have the sub-amp turned all the way down and the other amp turned all the way up and the subs are still too loud. I haven't tried the white-noise thing.

[Dougster]

Interesting thread...
When I bought my 86 944 a couple months back my Sony CD sounded pretty good...

Now the CD doesn't play...The back speakers don't play...Can't even get much sound to go through the fronts...

I haven't had much time to be able to check it out...

[Eldorado]

my contract with my employer ends friday morning at 3am, so I'm going to have a bunch of time on my hands for a few days following that..

so my number one project.... remove the deck and make a totally independant system. New power wires, and new speaker wires going to the speakers..... time to see if the wires are the culprit.

is there a wiring diagram for the harness? one of the PO's has the colours seriously all mixed up back there.....