-OT- Rejoice we have 944s! and NOT FORDS!

[EMBPilot]

off topic but i wanted to share this with you guys because i think even though our cars are small and tight to work in, and we complain about German design sometimes, check out this CLUSTER!

no big deal i figure, O2 sensors are made to be changed, as they only last 100K or so, and on our cars it at matter of getting to it, and thats about the extent of it.

so after comprehending why on earth my explorer has 4 O2 sensors and 4 catalytic converters, i dive in. Find the sensor, easily get to it with a wrench, it comes right out. done in about 5min. then cones the plug wire!

the person who designed the O2 plug wiring for ford needs to be shot! the plug sits secured up UNDER THE BODY of the car above the transmission where no way in hell you can get to it from under the car. so you need to remove the CENTER CONSOLE, remove all the interior lower front trim, pull the carpet and then get to the floor access panel and open it to plug the new sensor in! COMPLETELY RETARDED! lets not forget the Mix of standard and metric nuts and bolts! go figure?!

took me three hours to unbury it, and put it back together.







I have a whole new respect for our 944s!!!

[CJFusco]

THe 944 engine bay might be cramped, but that is its only bad point. 944s are almost ridiculously easy to work on for the DIYer.

Realistically, the 944 was the first car I ever really worked on myself. I thought it was a pain until I started having to repair things on my Olds. On the Cutlass, you're supposed to pull the engine to replace spark plugs (!!!)

You can tell just by glancing at the 944 engine bay that it was built for endurance racing.

[Blondie]

Amen to that.

Its funny this thread would come up. I was just talking with my buddy yesterday abt the easy-access setup the 944 has. (And the history behind it.)

This all came up while replacing a thermostat housing gasket in a......yea, you guessed it. A Ford.

[toolboy62]

I somewhat disagree with this premise. Sure a lot of things are easy on a 944, but when step one of changing the clutch is "remove exhaust and transaxle" I wouldn't call that exactly easy to service...

Now if you want to talk about a car that's a sheer joy to work on, check out my '55 Studebaker coupe. If you can't work on that car with a $100 Craftsman basic tool kit, you're pretty much mechanically retarded. (this is assuming no stripped/frozen fasteners of course.) Of course, since it was so easy to work on, I had to f**k it all up and install a later model engine and 4-speed which introduced all kinds of new issues

nate

[DVC]

I don't know. I think my Ford Lightning is superior to my 944 in just about every respect....save for MPG. Maybe I'm just saying that 'cause I have to R&R the rear speakers in the '44. Who's bright idea was it to design the rear quarter panel/quarter glass setup??

[CJFusco]

Originally posted by DVC
I don't know. I think my Ford Lightning is superior to my 944 in just about every respect

Um. Handling?

[VINMAN]

Show me one auto built after the late 80's thats not a nitemare to work on.

[Razorback1980]

I agree with Vinny. Look at the mess under the hood of that Ford you think is so wonderful. All cars break and my Ford trucks even have enough room under the hood for a small couch making them easier to work on, but all the electronics are a nightmare when they go south. So far, the new one has been maintenance free but it's still early.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally posted by toolboy62
I somewhat disagree with this premise. Sure a lot of things are easy on a 944, but when step one of changing the clutch is "remove exhaust and transaxle" I wouldn't call that exactly easy to service...

Now if you want to talk about a car that's a sheer joy to work on, check out my '55 Studebaker coupe. If you can't work on that car with a $100 Craftsman basic tool kit, you're pretty much mechanically retarded. (this is assuming no stripped/frozen fasteners of course.) Of course, since it was so easy to work on, I had to f**k it all up and install a later model engine and 4-speed which introduced all kinds of new issues

nate

Ummmm. . . Doing a clutch on ANY car requires major disassembly. As an alternative to removing the stuff from the rear and sliding the transmission backwards you could always drop the engine out. It's actually easier in some respects.

[KY944S]

Not too mention, have you seen the loss Ford took last year?

[toolboy62]

Ummmm. . . Doing a clutch on ANY car requires major disassembly. As an alternative to removing the stuff from the rear and sliding the transmission backwards you could always drop the engine out. It's actually easier in some respects.

if by "major disassembly" you mean:

1) remove four nuts on rear U-joint straps. Remove straps and driveshaft.

2) Remove shift boot and fiberglass floor plate.

3) Remove shift lever.

4) Remove four transmission to bellhousing bolts. Remove transmission.

5) Support engine. Remove rear engine mount from bellhousing. Remove bellhousing to block bolts and remove bellhousing.

which can be done by one person with hand tools, a floor jack, and some scrap lumber, then I guess that is "major dissasembly." I'm guessing it might take me all of 45 minutes if I stopped for beer in the middle. Might take a few more minutes if I had carpet in the car. That's what I would have to do to change the clutch on my Stude, so I'm a little spoiled by the butt-easiness of it all. Yes, there's nothing like driving a German car, but there's nothing like working on some old American iron. They're really a small step above tractors in terms of serviceability.

nate

[Blondie]

lol Ok so I forgot the 'old American iron'...but thats comparing apples to oranges lol the 944 has power windows, seats and door locks. Ergo, a wiring harness that fans out to 10,000 places...most noticeably a set of 4 InJeCtOrS lol

So, back to the original concepts for a sec: comparing the servicing of the 944 to so many late 70's to present fuel-injected cars.

I guess to be totally fair, we'd have to compare the 944 to other cars built with the same purpose in mind. Cuz naturally its gonna be tight when your looking at cars built with conservation of size and fuel in mind.................and FWD.

[1988_944]

Ford has been in around along time. Please support our American Auto Companys...... Ford Trucks #1

[CJFusco]

Why would I support an inferior product?

In all honesty, if you are gonna buy a truck, American trucks are the way to go. But I don't buy this "support Ford/Chevy because they're American" B.S. If they want my support, they should build a worthwhile product. I'm not going to support a local restaurant if the food tastes like crap.

[Britwrench]

Please explain difference between Ford made in Mexico (Focus), Chrysler made in Canada (300 models), GM made in Mexico and Canada (new Silverado) and Toyota Tundra made in the USA.

Anyone can buy whatever they want to, whether it's a piece of junk or a great car and plenty of people do.
The US based companies had the chance, but with poor management, inept design and marketing, insufficient investment and the UAW they are now suffering what was going to happen at some point. The same happens to other manufacturers in every country.

Regarding the Ford Lightning .. a nieghbor had the spark plug pull all the thread out of the head, to repair the Ford dealer removed the cab to enable cylinder head removal.

So far about 38,000 US Ford workers have accepted the buy-out plan. Makes you wonder about the company management skills doesn't it?

[schmedes1]

Originally posted by EMBPilot
no big deal i figure, O2 sensors are made to be changed, as they only last 100K or so, and on our cars it at matter of getting to it, and thats about the extent of it.

so after comprehending why on earth my explorer has 4 O2 sensors and 4 catalytic converters, i dive in.
I have a whole new respect for our 944s!!!

I have 111,000 miles on my 1998 Mountaineer and have no problems with the O2 sensors... did you have a MIL trigger, poor fuel consumption or emission failure problem that forced you to take on this project?

I agree with you that German cars are more logically engineered than American cars, but your cause for diving in is unclear.

[Keithr726]

[EMBPilot]

Originally posted by schmedes1
I have 111,000 miles on my 1998 Mountaineer and have no problems with the O2 sensors... did you have a MIL trigger, poor fuel consumption or emission failure problem that forced you to take on this project?

I agree with you that German cars are more logically engineered than American cars, but your cause for diving in is unclear.

CEL light with associated O2 sensor fail code from OBD. thats why i changed it.

i really hit a nerve here! this is great!

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Ummmm. . . Doing a clutch on ANY car requires major disassembly.

What about that "other" Porsche, the 911?

The engine drops out the bottom pretty easily. Probably the easiest 80's clutch to change. Or 60's. Or 70's. Or even 90's.

[Razorback1980]

Never done a 911, but pretty much any 60's or previous car or truck, clutchs are changed in about three hours if you take your time. It's not a major job at all.

The difference of where a car made isn't really the issue so much as it is cash flow to the country. For Toyota which is made in the US, where do the profits of the company go? Japan and not the US. The bank account for the US is just like the bank account for you personally...never a good thing if more money goes out than comes in. If it does, then you start accumulating debt and then problems start getting worse. It's a much better situation when you have the profits rolling into your country more than going out. If we continue to go in the wrong direction cash wise, there will be a day when another country will own most of this country because we didn't balance money going in and out. That is what also defines the strength of a countries money compared to other nations. Ever tried to buy something from the UK...what is the price of that product...it takes almost two of our dollars to match one of theirs. Ever wonder why that was? Now I don't really feel that sorry for the automotive industry, but I also know that is one of the biggest trails of cash in the world and how it plays out is very important to the well being of our countries cash reserves. It would be nice if Ford could fix what has gone wrong there and get back on the right track but it would be even better if they could fix it properly and eliminate about 50 percent of their management and thier high bonuses and leave the assembly line workers alone but that's not how it's done typically. That's almost like trying to get legislatures to fix political corruption problems that they are enjoying....