front end play \ strut mount need replacement?

[earlr85944]

I'm trying to diagnose the vibration I have at 60 mph:

i have the car apart and found play in the tie rods, i have 2 new ones to install

i will be getting new tires, struts\shocks and alignment\balance

question: i found the strut mount has some play, minor but a little wear: its where the small bushing in the middle contacts the rubber, there is @ 1/32" play i noticed it with the tire \ tie rod off and the strut in place and pulling back and forth on the strut: does this need replacement or am i going too far?[I'mg]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads14/000_00981225736112.jpg[/I'mg]

[John_AZ]

Going to far? Probably not.
Some additional suggestions would be ball joint replacement.

Make sure the front wheel bearings are repacked and the axle washer is slightly tighter than the typical "screwdriver" test. Why, because when the tire is lowered and "loads" ---tightens the bearing to the race, the screwdriver test is too loose and vibration occurs.

Grab the tie rod linkage and if you can feel movement in the rack, the steering rack may need replacement. If you have PS, if you remove the boots and fluid falls down, the rack needs rebuilding.

Replace all A-arm rubber if cracked or hard.

I had the same issue and someone, somewhere wrote that this is an inherent flaw in our cars, but can be minimized with the work you suggest.
Example:5.6.11 Front wheel shimmy
A shimmy at around 70 mph on early 944's appears to be a very common problem. No one is sure why it exists, but it may have something to do with the front suspension's VW rabbit origins. A wheel-on-the-car balance job frequently helps minimize the problem.

GL

John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

[Slam]

Also, what wheels are you running? I found that changing wheels/tires made a huge difference. The cookie-cutters seemed problematic. It took me a very long time to kill the shimmy in my early 944. I ended up swapping out EVERYTHING.

[earlr85944]

all good points
i will replace all the worn parts, trying to find out if this 1/32" play is considered excessive wear. does anyone have experience with this?

BTW: the wheels are 15" phone dials, appear straight, tires are old and a little dry, they will be replaced.

definately had excessive play in 1 tie rod, that may have done it but i havnt driven it after the replacement, i want to put it together once and align it and drive!

[Smoker324]

Excellent advice so far.

Not sure about the rabbit underpinnings being the cause of an inherent vibration -- I have owned many rabbits and jettas over the years and none had any recurrent vibration at any speed when all ball-joints bushings and whatnot were in good shape??? Is the 944 so different?

The cost to replace the rubber part is way cheap -- I think you can find them for 20-30 dollars each. I bought 2 new ones just because I wasn't sure if they were worn or not -- turns out they were not. I can send you my old ones for free + ship if you want them.

-Dan C.

[earlr85944]

i dont buy it. i have had other 944s before and they were fine at all speeds unless something is not right

smoker, thats cool i apperciate that but what rubber pieces are we talking about?

[John_AZ]

OH, one other frequent solution that may be an old wives tale is to mount the wheel lock opposite the valve stem.

John_AZ

[idontknow]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

OH, one other frequent solution that may be an old wives tale is to mount the wheel lock opposite the valve stem.

John_AZ

Interesting, but the tire is balanced with the valve stem installed.

My 60mph wiggle came from a top mount that looks like yours, though I also had some very worn struts. Don't know which one happened first but I believe the two were related.

Check your struts, it may be the cause of the worn top plates.

[earlr85944]

Going with NEW mount inserts! I was searching and the complete mount was NLA here at Pelican, I searched other sites and found them for @ $500, thats why I was investigating if they "needed" to be replaced, I was going to go with used. I just found out our gracious host does list the rubber inserts, new OEM Porsche for under $35! So bottom line I will replace them.
Thanks for all the input.

BTW- that is an old wives tale, usually if it doesn't make sense it isn't true.

[Slam]

Considering how easy changing the strut inserts is, may as well do those with the mounts. With the early mounts, can't you pop the bearing out and have it matched by a bearing shop? I think you're on the right track though - if the mount can't hold the strut where it belongs you get enough geometry change to cause a vibration.

Have fun!

[earlr85944]

Thanks, i will change the inserts and the metal bushing is fine, it was the rubber inserts for the mount that are worn, I will be doing both sides. Im not in a hurry so the car will be laid up all winter, trying to do it once cause once its aligned I aint gonna take it apart again.

[jcommin]

early: I'm with you on this. Get it all fixed before you do the alignment. The top mounts are interesting. If you have an early car, the top mounts car be obtained either on Pelican, Sunset Imports of you local Porsche dealer. The price is around $80 to $90 a piece.

However, if you have a 85.5+ these mounts are BIG money. Others on this board have bought the aftermarket ones (I don't remember the make) mono ball or something like that for about 1/2 the OE price. Many feel they are better than the OE.

I have an early car and replaced the top mounts because I was replacing struts. I went all the way and either rebuilt or replaced everything. 1/32 is allot of 'play' in my opnion.

Check wheel bearings, tie rods, etc.

[earlr85944]

yes, i saw my front rotors are a little thin so new wheel bearings bearings are going in as well as tie rods and struts, ctrl arms are fine thank goodness