Need suggestions to get my 944 started

[Icicle]

Hello,

I have had my 944 parked in my garage for a year and a half without much TLC. When I parked it in the garage everything worked fine. A year later, and I'm stuck troubleshooting why she won't start. =)

I have a few pages from the workshop manual that I have been going through and the Haynes 944 book too, but hoping someone with more experience might be able to offer a few suggestions.

After replacing the battery, the problem I had was that it would crank but wouldn't fire. From there, I siphoned out as much of the gas as I could and replaced it with fresh fuel and some STP. I also swapped out the spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter and ignition coil (I couldn't get a reading on the coil using my multimeter). After doing all of that she fired up for a minute and then slowly died off.

Now when I try to fire it up all I hear is a loud metal like "clunk" and it won't even try to crank anymore. I thought it might have been a gas problem, so I tried running the fuel pump by using a jumper wire and it seems to run and I can hear it at the rail too, so I think its flowing...

Given the "clunk" noise it sounds like something is stuck? Maybe I have a problem with my starter? I read something about gear teeth getting stuck, but thought I would ask around first before I start dismantling my starter and everything above it. =(

Thanks!!

[exitwound]

Well the more you attempt to start the car, the less the battery will have to power the starter. make sure the battery is charged up and try again. From all the cranking, the battery might just be too low to power the starter while it turns the engine. That's my first guess.

Other issues might be a stuck solenoid on the starter. Bad/dirty grounds to the starter.

If it was cranking but not starting, check the obvious, like you're doing. Fuel to the rail, firing injectors, and spark. You seem to be on the right path.

[banana944]

DME relay

[Icicle]

I think power is good - I still just get the loud metal "clunk" now even when the car is hooked up to my truck so I think I'm good there.

I haven't checked the solenoid or injectors - thanks will take a look at those. I just put brand new sparks in but I suppose I should check to make sure they're all ok. Is there an easy way of doing this or should I pull one out at a time and just carefuly see if they spark (Haynes says not to fire it while the plug is removed though because it could damage the DME?).

banana944 - I think I can eliminate whether the DME relay is the problem by jumpering 30, 87 and 87b together and trying to start the car?

Thanks for the quick response guys!!!

[Icicle]

I confirmed that the DME relay is ok by wiring 30, 87 and 87b together. When I setup the wiring the fuel pump started and I could hear fuel at the rail. Then when I tried to start the car I heard the loud "clang" again and the fuel pump shut off. Still not cranking or generating spark anymore since it started for 20 seconds then slowly died...

I haven't tested the ignition switch - will do that with my multimeter next.

I'm starting to think that my starter is stuck and the "clang" I'm hearing is simply the starter being stuck and not firing. Is there any way that I can at least test this out without having to get under the car? I saw a couple of ways describing using a jumper wire directly to the starter to test if it will fire but that has to be done in a safe way underneath the vehicle or with the starter removed. I'm not setup to lift the vehicle like this to do that test so hoping there's something I could do from above? =(

Thanks!!

[Razorback1980]

First thing you have to do is get the engine to turn over. It can't possibly start if the starter isn't turning the engine. Work on that problem first. The battery should have about 12 to 14 volts in it. Check that. Clean your battery cables including the ground in both places for each. The place where it hooks to the battery and then where it hooks to the starter for the positive and the battery and where the ground hooks to the engine. The clunk you are hearing is the starter drive engaging the flywheel but there isn't enough power to turn the starter over. Use the jack from the car if that is all you have to lift the car to clean the cables but NEVER crawl under the car without something to block it up where it can't fall on you.

After you get the starter working, we'll check out the rest of the problems. It only takes four things to make an engine run fire, fuel, timing and compression. Sounds like you have fuel and it's probably not timing and compression, so we'll check out the spark first.

[Icicle]

Thanks Razorback!!! I really appreciate your suggestions. I will focus on the battery and starter connections and voltage before going any further and post back the results. I assumed that hooking up my running truck to the battery would be enough, but I see your point about the actual connections to the battery and especially the starter which I haven't looked at yet.

I watched the car jack completely melt under my car while changing the tire once which was enough to get me on the hardcore safety wagon anytime I need to do anything under the car. =)

Thanks!!!

[John_AZ]

If it is the starter, you could try rebuilding DIY:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2359900&postid=42115781

What you will normally find is a crack in the front plastic housing.



The best rebuilt is a Bosch "re-manufactured". Many parts are replaced. More expensive but worth it.
If you decide to get a "used" from EBay or here, you will have the same problems shortly.
Rebuilts from FLAPS or local rebuilder quality varies-you do get a 90 day to 1 year warranty.

Check/clean your grounds on the bell housing by firewall. There are 2. One for the negative cable and a tiny one for electronics--ie sensors.

GL
John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

[ballysdad]

Ok this is the stuff I would check easiest first.
1) When you turn the key to the run position do you see the tach bounce at all? If you replace the reference sensors it should if they are adjusted correctly. If you did not remove the bracket you should be ok here but check it.
2)Do you have good voltage at the battery check across terminal should be 13v @ least.
3) Pull the dme relay make a 3 way jumper and jump pins 30/87/87a on fuse panel where the dme relay goes does it start? If not put relay back in.
4) Check ignition cap and rotor. If you take the ignition cap off the is a rotor under there that can back out to the end of the camshaft because the bolt that holds it backs out. Check for carbon build up and clean, inspect for cracks.
5) check for voltage at coil with key on should be 12v to black wire and 12v on green wire to ground.
6)check primary resistance across black and green wire with an ohm meter should be betwen .4 and .6 ohms
7)check secondary resistance put one side of lead inside top of coil and the other lead to the green wire (ground) should read 5k to 7200k
inspect plug wires and primary coil wire
9) take a spark plug and 1 piece of scrap wire.Strip one end about 2 inches back and wrap around spark plug threads hold with electrical tape. The other end of wire goes to ground on coil (green wire) take the primary ign wire off of distrubtor cap and put spark plug in it. Have someone carnk the motor and touch electrode to ground. Does it spark?
10)get under dash and check for supply voltage at pin 86 12v on fuse panel with dme relay out. If no voltage wire to ignition switch is bad. check for 12v on pin 30 that is supply to fuel pump
11) check supply voltage to dme and fuel pump by pulling the plug off the dme computer and checking for 12v on pins 18 and 35 to ground with key on
If you have spark and are getting good readings everywhere else look to fuel delivery problems.
11b) check for 12v at the injector. Pull the injector harness off one injector you should get 12v on one pin and 0v on the other to ground when the key is turned.
12) connect metric fuel pressure guage to end of fuel rail with the dme relay removed. Jump pins 30 and 87b to activate fuel pump and let run for 30 seconds. You should be seeing about 36 psig +/- 3.
13) with the jumpered pulled and gauge still connected let sit for about 20 minutes the pressure should not drop below 14.5 psig if it does let us know and there is a test to isolate the FPR and the dampener.
14) If the pressure was too high it may be your FPR is shot. If you are looking at the firewall on top of fuel rail it is the one on the left.
15) Check for fuel flow. Disonnect the hose at the bottom of the FPR and connect a test hose and clamp to it. This is the return line to the tank. Put the end of it in a container that can catch the fuel. Jumper the dme pins 30/87b to acitvate fuel pump for 30 seconds exactly you shoul get about 29 oz of fluid. If you are getting less check for clogged fuel filter and clogged fuel strainer in tank.

That should keep you going for a few let us know how you make out. The more info the better. There is a temp sender on the motor that tells the dme when the car is cold at start up make sure that is good as well.
check the alarm if no spark you can bypass it.