Replaced master and slave...back at square 1

jacketfan89 · 09-13-2009, 07:24 AM

Well,

I'm back at square one. I finally got my clutch bled, with what I would call an unorthodox method. I did what hpservertech did and let gravity do its job...and then when gravity wasn't working fast enough, I used my mouth as a pressure bleeder...lmao.

Mouth went numb for a second, but it's all good now. So I screwed the bleeder valve back in, got in the car, reattached the pushrod and pushed the pedal...and I only got a little pressure at the floor. I decided to adjust the push rod, just because there was NO WAY that there was any air left in that hydraulic system. VOILA, I had the push rod adjusted WAY too short so the pedal was just going to the floor.

I adjusted it out as John said and I had a perfect pedal, so I decided to go for a test drive. I got really excited because I started the car in Neutral, shifted into reverse, then to first, back to reverse, back to first into second into third into 4th...like butter!! I thought my problem was solveld yad until I tried to downshift....

I got into third, but trying to downshift into first and second did NOT want to happen. I finally slammed it into gear, and upshifting from 2nd to 3rd to 4th was easy.

I think HPServerTech was right...(Go ahead, NOW I expect a told ya so)...lol

So after the car runs for a minute and I am sitting Idle, I cannot shift into first second or reverse with the clutch fully depressed. I can however get into 3rd 4th and 5th sitting idle BUT the back of the car (I'm assuming the transaxle) makes a really wierd vibrating noise like something rubbing against the wall while its spinning or something.

In third the sound is faint, fourth it gets louder and 5th even louder.

Before, I couldn't get into any gear while sitting idle so the master and clutch WERE probably bad, but there's something else.

And I don't think its my clutch, because with it fully depressed, sitting idle I can get into 3rd 4th and 5th no problem. If my clutch wasn't working, I don't think I would be able to get into any gear...but I don't know.

If I start the car in first, as I left off the clutch, something pops.

Is my transaxle bad?

Thanks for all the help once again,

Matt

jackrussell · 09-13-2009, 09:10 AM

It sounds like your clutch is not fully disengaging and the sounds you hear in the rear are gears dragging when you try to shift.

Your system probably still has air in it. Check pedal free travel, should be about 1/8 to 1/4 inch. Then try bleeding the system the old fashioned way with a helper inside the car to push the clutch pedal, while you open and close the bleeder valve. You need to do this several times to remove all the air.

mikepellegrini · mikepellegrini's Garage

+1 - yeah, unless you depress the pedal a few times when bleeding - even with a power bleeder - you can still have air in the MC.

jacketfan89 · 09-13-2009, 01:29 PM

So...it's probably still not bled correctly???? There is a napa repair shop like literally half a mile from me...maybe I can just have them bleed it? Could it be the synchros?? How come it will shift into 3rd 4th and 5th with the car idling, but not 1st second or reverse?? If I am able to shift from neutral to 3 4 and 5 does that at least eliminate the actual clutch disk and pressure plate from the problem???

John_AZ · 09-13-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacketfan89

So after the car runs for a minute and I am sitting Idle, I cannot shift into first second or reverse with the clutch fully depressed. I can however get into 3rd 4th and 5th sitting idle BUT the back of the car (I'm assuming the transaxle) makes a really wierd vibrating noise like something rubbing against the wall while its spinning or something.

In third the sound is faint, fourth it gets louder and 5th even louder.

Before, I couldn't get into any gear while sitting idle so the master and clutch WERE probably bad, but there's something else.

If I start the car in first, as I left off the clutch, something pops.

Is my transaxle bad? Matt

Matt,
I am concerned about the "vibrating noise like something rubbing against the wall while its spinning or something". And of course "something pops".

You have drained the transaxle and found no silver chips.

Rasta Monsta suggested, "Could be broken 'fingers' on your clutch release lever. . .symptoms sound similar." On an earlier post.

You may have air in the clutch hydraulics but now this is not your main problem. You could have a bad clutch fork like Rasta said, or a burned out TO-throw out bearing, something simple like clutch fork needle bearings that collapsed or the TO guide sleeve is cracked.

If you have a mechanics stethoscope (Harbor Freight) Start the car and probe where the "rubbing sound against the wall while its spinning or something" is coming from. FRONT or BACK. This will isolate the problem. (Car on floor, drivers side lifted, front and rear jackstands, wheel blocks, emergency on. Safety first.)

We also need to know where the "POP" is coming from if it happens again.

Just another thought, is the clutch fork shaft all the way in and the security bolt tightened. I doubt this is your problem but check everything.

GL
John_AZ

jacketfan89 · 09-13-2009, 05:14 PM

I took a video of me shifting through the gears with the car running. The shifter feels very sloppy...A LOT of side to side motion. Could it be something with the linkage??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSMphHUEB4U

This is me shifting gears while driving. (Or trying to at least. Here you can REALLY hear the noises the car makes if you turn your volume up.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNHP_Orlo2E

It sounds like something to do with the shifter or linkage or something, because all of the noises seem to be coming right from underneath the center console. I don't know though. Take a look at the vids and see if they help at all.

Thanks again,

Matt

John_AZ · 09-13-2009, 05:35 PM

Matt,

The first part is easy.
See post 5:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=497641

I have earlier suggested checking the lock bolt (has security wire) at the rear of the shift rod, and it was OK. You also said the rear linkage can shift without effort to all gears by hand at the transaxle. I do not think the problem is on top of the transaxle linkage--Maybe the shift knob?

I have no conclusion on the noise except to still think it is coming from the bell housing. The torque tube has 4 bearings and if the bearings and races separate the drive shaft does vibrate and makes a lot of noise. This you could isolate with a stethoscope or just a very long screwdriver touching the torque tube with your ear on the handle.

I'm going to listen to the videos again.

GL
John_AZ

John_AZ · 09-13-2009, 05:57 PM

Matt,
Is the shift lever fastened tightly to the torque tube? There are 2 short 13mm bolts hiding under the foam. Check them. Then remove the shift handle from the torque tube and check the poly bushing in the retainer. It may be cracked.

In the second video, I hear the noises but see that shifting the gears is next to impossible.

It is really hard to understand (or believe-one failure maybe) why the shifting, hydraulics and clutch ALL could fail a day after you bought the car and test drove it.

John_AZ

jacketfan89 · 09-13-2009, 07:46 PM

I don't think ALL of that stuff failed...or i hope not at least. I just don't know what ONE problem could cause all of these symptoms and develop all in a matter of 15 minutes of driving the car. That's what sucks. It just seems like something has come loose or something. I'm going to recheck everything from the shifter back to the transmission and make sure everything is tightly connected. Is there somewhere I can look to see HOW everything is suposed to bolt/work together??

John_AZ · 09-14-2009, 06:06 AM

Here is a page from the WSM on the linkage:

I searched for similiar topics and most answers focus on the clutch or linkage:
See post 3 on additional linkage ideas:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=477819&highlight=linkage

You might want to do a search on more "linkage" problems in this forum.

Here is a clutch diagnostic PDF from Centerforce Clutches. Read all topics that focus on "reasons for Hard shifting"

http://media.centerforce.com/DiagGuide/DiagnosticGuide04DL.pdf

GL
John_Az

jacketfan89 · 09-14-2009, 07:52 AM

Alright,

Well I just did some more research (Thanks John for the Links), and I found one more guy on another forum with a VW that is having the exact same problem to a T...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=88546

He had been hard on his clutch (i don't know how the PO treated it) but he had a few cracks in his pressure plate and it was causing him ALL of the same problems. The fact that it was fine when he first started the car and then began messing up within a quarter mile is what really leads me to believe that the same thing is wrong.

I almost want to tear into the clutch first...before ordering my parts to see exactly what I need, and if I can re-use anything. I am going to check my linkage first, but this pressure plate sounds exactly like the problem I'm having.

Confirmation?