not starting properly.
 

I just put in a new alternator last night, because of the slow start/no start issues. It fired right up, and quickly. Let it sit overnight, it fired right up this morning, no problem. Got to work, let it sit for 5 hours. Went out to leave, and, it cranks, but would not catch. A student opens the hood, twists the throttle, has me cranking it, and, it fires right up. At this point he tells me not to shut it off until I get home, gives me a laundry list of items I need to buy (over 2000$ worth), and a host of new problems, which he self diagnosed by just looking at the engine, including telling me that the original factory water pump is still on the car. (Can you tell this by looing at it? I mean, it looks brand new, but I don't know.) 2 hours later, I'm home, and he is calling me, wanting me to sell him my car, or trade mine for his non Porsche. Now I'm sitting here thinking 1 of 2 things: he wants my car badly, or he is being genuine and wanting to help me out. I am at a loss, and my husband is at work freaking out because he has to spend another thousand (or more) on parts, and take more time off work to fix it. (this is my daily driver). I need some serious input here. While I don't have a ton of cash on hand, I do have some, and as weeks come will have enough for maintenance for this car. What I need to know is what could possibly be wrong as to why its intermittently giving me starting problems. I have ordered these things for now, in hopes that it could be something simple: new plugs, a fuel filter, and an air cleaner ( I know the air cleaner isn't the problem, but it needs one badly.) Here is another bit of info: when I start the car and it wont catch, the volt meter drops way down to 10. Other times, it's normal, at 13, and fires right up. Any tips? Thanks...

what is the major problem?

you need to start the engine long before it is started properly?

have you changed the plugs?

So its like a hesitation issue? and installing a new alternator cured the problem for a few days right? Might want to check and make sure batter posts are clean and that the ground is good too. I'm not sure 100% but there should be another ground on the rear of the engine near the Oil filler tube that goes to the bellhousing to the firewall of the car. Its a pinky thick braided wire.

Youre voltage should drop when cranking the car. But if the car is not cranking over as if the batter was dead? you might want to check the voltage of the battery it might be on its way out?

Maybe it could be the DME/FUel pump relay guys? not enought fuel pressure to start the car maybe?

is the fuel pump running, when you turn the key, but not crank?


on my 924 the ground cable is not coated with anything.. just plain metal, from motor to firewall.. is there another ground cable from motor to the frame?(besides the battery ground)

It was a hesitation issue...but now it will crank, and not catch, at all...until you manually twist the throttle. (needing 2 people, 1 to turn the key, 1 to be under the hood twisting the throttle). Then there are times it will fire right up, no problem. My issue is that I don't want to be stuck somewhere with it not starting, and, I want to understand why its doing this so it can be fixed. The new alternator fixed the slow start issue. When it wants to, it fires on the first crank now, which before the new alternator it never did. Yes, fuel pump running when the key is turned. The battery was new, the cable ends clean..I do have an extra DME, should I switch it? How does one know if its bad? I love you guys, I wish you all knew how much I appreciate your help...

have you checked the sparkplugs?

sparkplugs wires?
another end of the sparkplug wires? what it is called?(I cant remember)

Dont even think about to sell your car...
My girlfriend is mad to me that I need to fix my 924 so often, but ewven I have only bit of money left.. I dont sell my precious.

so when you push the throtle with you feat, nothing happens?

is it electric gas in 944? :eek:

exactly...when I push the pedal, its as if I'm doing nothing. He hit the throttle under the hood and it started right up. I just went and picked up plugs and filters..am going to change those tonight...I'm just begging the Porsche gods that its something simple for now...if it was the weekend I wouldn't care, I'd have time to tinker then, but for now, I need to count on it to get me from a to b.

Well Start with the simple things like the grounds and checking the plugs before droping any more cash. Once those are known to be good then you can move on. Changing out the extra DME couldent hurt but make sure the One that is in there now isent damaged like corroded or burnt melted connections at the dme harness.

Will do...was just checking in to that, wondering if the intermittent start or lack thereof could be the DME.

[QUOTE=Geosangel;6265059]exactly...when I push the pedal, its as if I'm doing nothing. Your not suppose to push the gas pedal when you start a 944 ,turn the key on for aproxx ten second & try turning it over & see if it will start without pushing the pedal.:)

I think it would be really hard to know the water pump was original unless the belt covers are off ... are they?

you say that it is "as if I'm doing nothing" when pushing the gas pedal is a little confusing.
You obviously drove it home, so the pedal is actually operating the throttle body. Ernie is right, you should not need to push the pedal to get the car to actually start since it is a fuel injected car....unless! there is something wrong with the throttle position sensor(TPS). Bet that is on your list from the student!

Yes these cars do take a bit of care and money to keep running well. If you bought this car to get back and forth to work and not to be your "baby", then a 944 may not be for you, or your hubby. If your student appears to be sincere about wanting the car, and you are in the "just need a car to drive" catagory, then it may be a good deal for you.

If you do want to keep the car and fixer up, then this is a good start. Many of us know the tricks to keep these cars going and are continuously learning more, know where the best price deals on parts are, and where the good used parts can be gotten from trusted "dismantlers" and who to watch out for.

good luck to ya.

Geosangel -
Here are some helpful links I have saved, you may find some help for your current issue in one of them. As always Clarkes Garage is invaluable.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/484996-let-start-no-start-checklist.html
Bennington Motorsports
Home - Porsche 944 Turbo (951) - texasblake.com
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/468963-jacking-points-clarified.html

or with cable like on 924?

I have problem with my 924 cold starting also..
when I start it, it sound like a tractor, runs maybe only with 3 cylinders.. but after pumping a little gas, then it goes a smooth cold runner.. but still there is abit loss of power when releasing the cluths for few moments..

TPS - hummm.

And no it's not an electric cable/wire wrapped around the Throttle body cam...That's just plain silly...although some would try it...ha ha.

Do a check out with Clark's Garage: Clark's Garage Home Page

Do check the throttle position sensor while you are in there.

I cannot understand that, why person need to turn throttle from engine, as it is the same as hitting the gas from pedal with foot?

Geosangel:
are you sertand that no one pissing with you? does your car start on your home? or does it only crank there too?

It does the same thing at home as well. When my husband got home last night, it did it again, and with a few twists of the throttle, (3 to be to exact) it fired right up. This car is both my baby and my daily driver. I will not be trading or selling it. The student was full of it on several things he said, I found this out later when a co worker told me about a conversation that took place after I left. So I wont be listening to him at all...on another note, Clarks Garage is bookmarked, and hubby took off today to work on it, so as we progress I'll update and probably have more questions. You guys are great ;)

Update...new plugs, fuel filter, air filter, and DME. It starts fine while hot, just not when cold, again unless you play with the throttle under the hood.

Did you mess something up when you changed the alternator? Seems like the problem changed after that, I'd recheck everything you did if I was you.

+1^ Yes re-check every thing that was done when changing out the Alternator.

If the J-boot (Large rubber intake attached to the Throttle Body) was moved or off during the Alt. replacement check that the vacuum connection attached below J-boot for being off or loose connection.

Check and clean the Throttle Position Sensor & connections attached to the Throttle Body.

Pretty soon you will have it all sorted out to go many reliable miles - well with maintenance of course.



150mph on the interstate - when the red and blues start flashing step up to 160mph, they are geared out to only 140mph, so that's a breeze - what do you mean, "They have Radios".

Ok so I'm feeling pretty stupid right now, but, remember I'm just learning. I can see the J boot needs replaced badly, was planning on that this weekend. It never occurred to me that this might be the issue, or that there was a vacuum line underneath it. Hubby did the alternator, and I'm 100 percent he had no clue either. He will be home from work early tomorrow, so we will give it a look. I hear Pelican is the best place to order the replacements...so, here goes another new part. I don't know if I'm excited to be replacing things slowly or worried I need a second job to support my car, lol. I've been reading about everything that's been mentioned here and I'm learning so very much. Unfortunately, the more I read, the more I want to replace things, and I'm wondering if I should second guess nursing school and replace it with Porsche mechanics 101...:P

I have been buying parts from Pelican for many years, and the quality and prices are very hard to beat. Aftermarket parts are sometimes a little less at other places. I was rebuilding a motor and wanted to replace the old used oil pump with a new one. At Pelican the new Oil Pump was a discounted Porsche price of $585.00 (Porsche dealer was $689.00). I searched and searched finally found one for $473.60. This is one of a very few cases I did not buy from Pelican.

Nursing 209 is a third semester mechanics class so you can get to school on time....lol,,,In Med School for the Doctors it is a short class that teaches them to use the Yellow Pages...ROFL

That student seems like a very naughty boy. Can't he get a fail or something?

How could he even have laid eyes on the water-pump, unless he'd removed the cam-cover? And before that, removed the accessory belts etc?

Persevere. These folks will help you. Although maybe a cheap daily drive as a backup is worth considering.

Edit:

I have to amend the above post, I forgot you have an '88 944 (Mine is a 85.5, early model of Gen. II). So all of a sudden I am remembering that on the '88's that vacuum hose hook-up is probably on the outside curve of the J-boot. So Porsche made them both ways.

That connection goes to a wye connection where one side of the wye goes to the Master Brake Cyl, and the other goes to operate fuel systems.

ok..will be looking at it this afternoon. Had to take yet another day off work, it would not start this morning at all (as usual). When we had it started last night, it ran fine, shut it off, it fired right up every time. Let it sit more than 20 minutes, it wont start again. I'm not going to go look at it right now, I'm to irritated. (I can't get anywhere to get parts I may need). So, waiting for hubby to get home. In the meantime, I'm reading a lot, and wondering about the reference sensor...

on a hunch I went out did something weird..I smelled the oil dipstick, and it reeks of gas...this can't be a good sign at all...

Update: no fuel pressure at the rails..

Oh pfooey - One problem after another, sorry to hear...

Well that may be the Fuel Pump (Located in back under close to the fuel tank, and covered by a protective skid plate), Fuel Filter (Just forward of the Fuel Pump), or the DME Fuel Pump Relay. When you turn on the ign. key can you hear the fuel pump (If it is very quiet there and if you listen closely you can slightly hear the pump running (Then Fuel Filter). I think you have already replaced the DME Relay ??

One thing to check first is to see if you have Tach Bounce. Looking closely at the Tachometer turn on the ignition key, if the Tach. bounces slightly (1/16"), then go back to above items...If not back to "Clark's Garage no run list", for sensors.

So it seems the PO (Previous Owner) just ran the can into the ground and then sold it when it started to need maintenance. Usually our 944's do not have this many problems unless someone just drove them very hard and never kept them up...

yes the fuel pump runs, and no, no tach bounce at all, again making me think its the reference sensor...I'm going to rip into it tomorrow and Sunday and see what I come up with. This week has been way too crazy.

Yes this is bad.
The fuel from the injectors while trying to start the car will "wash" the cylinders of oil and end up in the crankcase.

The pistons need this oil to prevent the coating on the piston from being scraped away. This coating prevents damage to the piston skirts and cylinder walls.

Result=scared cylinder walls and unuseable pistons. End result get a new block.

John

I feel your pain! Try not to get too anxious and depressed about it; stay cool; follow the advice given her, troubleshoot methodically from that advice, and buy the parts when you're sure you need them, and not before. (Easier to say than to do, I know!)

There are a number of cautionary threads here where people went on a parts-replacing frenzy, spent a lot of money in a hurry, and still didn't fix their problem. One step at a time, I'd say...