Bolt-on parallel flow AC condenser

[89-944NA]

The Global Warming Potential of HFO-1234yf is 4 compared to 1400 for R134a. Manufacturing of the R134a will eventually cease just like R-12, and once that happens, only what is recovered from systems will be available....just like R-12.

We can thank the European Parliment for the change, they decided that no cars maufactured in Europe after Jan 1, 2011 would use R134a, and the SAE Interior Climate Control Committee decided to follow suit (most likely with some pressure from the EU) so that European car manufacturer's would not have to run 2 different systems (HFO for Europe and R134 for US).

Also, R134a is a "blend" while HFO is a single component refrigerant.

Welcome to the "greening" of the auto industry.

[mattdavis11]

In other words, Dupont and Honeywell have a hell of lobby team. It's going to be another drop in refrigerant, just like R134a was. CFC's and HFC's are still being manufactured and will most likely continue to be manufactured for quite some time...

[Gawernator]

It's all about profit lol

[JAXTURBO]

Originally Posted by 89-944NA

The Global Warming Potential of HFO-1234yf is 4 compared to 1400 for R134a. Manufacturing of the R134a will eventually cease just like R-12, and once that happens, only what is recovered from systems will be available....just like R-12.

We can thank the European Parliment for the change, they decided that no cars maufactured in Europe after Jan 1, 2011 would use R134a, and the SAE Interior Climate Control Committee decided to follow suit (most likely with some pressure from the EU) so that European car manufacturer's would not have to run 2 different systems (HFO for Europe and R134 for US).

Also, R134a is a "blend" while HFO is a single component refrigerant.

Welcome to the "greening" of the auto industry.

So much knowledge on this forum. Simply amazing. Keep schooling me guys. I have so much to learn.

[89-944NA]

Blame it on SAE Interior Climate Control Committee, which is made up of: Representatives of the US automobile manufacturers, component and equipment manufacturers, the EPA and other MVAC experts.

Unfortunately it will NOT be a drop in like R134a, operates at a much higher pressure, high enough that it requires additional sensors, and it is also mildly flammable, so leak sensors are also required.

[Gawernator]

Originally Posted by JAXTURBO

So much knowledge on this forum. Simply amazing. Keep schooling me guys. I have so much to learn.

Not sure if serious or sarcasm...

Also, I'm sure they will move to make it illegal to produce R-134a so that they can really profit off the new stuff.

[v2rocket_aka944]

Originally Posted by 89-944NA

Not meaning to be a sticky wicket but, don't forget R134a is in the process of being phased out. Porsche has already begun shipping cars with the replacement HFO-1234yf (as of MY 2011), and retrofitting an R134a system is NOT ALLOWED (pressures for HFO-1234yf are way HIGH). HFO-1234yf is not expected to be sold by anyone but certified shops. If your going to upgrade your system, start buying R134a now...some auto parts stores have already stopped selling it.

Me? I have a 50# cylinder of R-12 that was given to me after a friend who did HVAC passed away...not planning on converting any time in the future. lol

That is right, I had heard that from an AC tech a few months ago...they said that the new stuff is pretty nasty and hard on parts, too...but its good for the polar bears...I too am considering buying a big jug of 134 to stockpile...

Get your 134 while you can, folks.

[JAXTURBO]

Originally Posted by Gawernator

Not sure if serious or sarcasm...

Also, I'm sure they will move to make it illegal to produce R-134a so that they can really profit off the new stuff.

Dead serious! The guys I've met here in cyberspace, and some in person at meets, know their ***** and have provided more intel than I could have researched by myself in 50 years. My intake was polished by a local tech based on the recommendation from bvbracer. I "met" someone from my previous neck of the woods (Long Island NY)... techno and on and on. Oh yeah, there is a ton of free flowing info here.
I also belong to a Me/Be a Dodge, and a BMW forum, and I can certainly say the info flow here tops them all.

[Gawernator]

Woohoo! I concur.

[v2rocket_aka944]

blimp

[Gawernator]

Might be in the budget after all..... :'(

[pfarah]

Very interesting... After I bought the 84 NA back in May, I discussed converting to 134A with my mechanic friend and he told me that all the old oil must be evacuated in order for the system to work properly. He set up the system to accept 134A, I drove around with the AC on for a couple of days then evacuated the system a second time and installed a new drier. My AC has been working great since (June) to the point where I didn't need to turn the fan on high! The best part was the job cost me $60.00, including the PP drier ( I think it was @ $11.00 or so).

[v2rocket_aka944]

Originally Posted by Gawernator

Might be in the budget after all..... :'(

good, but why the sad face?

Originally Posted by pfarah

Very interesting... After I bought the 84 NA back in May, I discussed converting to 134A with my mechanic friend and he told me that all the old oil must be evacuated in order for the system to work properly. He set up the system to accept 134A, I drove around with the AC on for a couple of days then evacuated the system a second time and installed a new drier. My AC has been working great since (June) to the point where I didn't need to turn the fan on high! The best part was the job cost me $60.00, including the PP drier ( I think it was @ $11.00 or so).

Nice!

[Gawernator]

Lost a fiancé and a pregnancy in one fell swoop...

Anyways... How does this hose modification work? And what's the real-life difference one will notice with this condenser? Pretty easy install for a relative noob like me?

[v2rocket_aka944]

Holy crap...very sorry to hear that, man. Things don't always go as planned, but how you deal with them and move forward is what proves who you are. Life goes on.

Hose modification - hoses get made longer, using different fittings than stock on the condenser end. The stock compressor-end and receiver-dryer-end fittings are re-used though. If you had the condenser and the hoses ready to go, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to re-install everything.

Real life difference is subjective, depends on what condition your current condenser is in. Just going to a new, clean condenser versus the old one will improve how well the AC cools the car. The design of this unit compared to the stock one will compound that improvement, making the overall AC process slightly more efficient, meaning cooler air for you in the cabin, less work on the AC system and less work for the engine to drive.

[HondaDustR]

Originally Posted by 89-944NA

Blame it on SAE Interior Climate Control Committee, which is made up of: Representatives of the US automobile manufacturers, component and equipment manufacturers, the EPA and other MVAC experts.

Unfortunately it will NOT be a drop in like R134a, operates at a much higher pressure, high enough that it requires additional sensors, and it is also mildly flammable, so leak sensors are also required.

Hmm...just proves that the whole game is bull*****. Ever heard of R-152a? The nearly split image of R-134a, but with a GWP of, oh, just 120 or so (which meets whatever that BS EU directive was)? Slightly flammable, yeah. About 15% more efficient than R-134a. Runs nearly identical pressures as R-134a, slightly lower discharge temps. Only downside is it makes nasty stuff if it burns (hydrogen fluoride), oh wait, that's the same stuff HFO-1234yf makes if it burns! I've converted R-134a circuits out of refrigerators to R-152a and it's great stuff, kicks butt for low temp applications, too. It's what all of the electronics duster cans use now. Why not just go with CO2? Refrigerant industry is always a conspiracy. What happens when CO2 is outlawed and we have to go back to the dark ages?

[Gawernator]

Took a look at my condenser today... about 5 million rocks and some seriously smashed up fins etc... Put me down for one.. probably will order in December or January.. and will need the hoses/fittings. Gonna have to refill the A/C system again huh? Just re-filled a few months ago Probably time for a new drier as well.

[v2rocket_aka944]

bump

[v2rocket_aka944]

Some (poor) pictures showing the condenser installed on a 944S...

[Gawernator]

You don't need to remove the nose panel for the install do you?