Guess how many valves 944S Boyeee has bent.......????

944S Boyeee · 10:36 AM

First of all - I have 8 bent valves (all exhaust valves I think).

Now - here is the problem.....

All of the boots or hats or buckets whatever you call them (the things on the backside of the valves in the head) came out of the head with no problem - except one!!! The valve that bent worst is the one that has the stuck bucket. The lower part of the engine is fine. The head is being sent to a machine shop to see if they can get the bucket out and to check if the head is ok.

Anyone know why a bucket would get stuck? Is this an obvious sign the head is screwed??? Or could the bucket just be warped or something??

Also, if I need a new head - would it be finacially more advantageous to replace the head ($3000+3000 labour) or go a total other way - i.e. replace the engine with a $1200 S2 engine or do the (shudder) Chevy conversion. Does anyone know if the S2 head will fit my car? Cause I could buy the S2 motor and just use the head, as it would be cheaper than buying a new head?

944S Boyeee

944S Boyeee · 07-15-2002, 10:39 AM

Ok - I just found a head for $1500 - if worse comes to worse.

I also found out that the S2 head will not work on my car.

I also found out doing the LT1 conversion is super-expensive.

Anyone wanna tell me why my bucket is stuck?? - Hey, isn't that a Country and Western song???

944S Boyeee

jchasse · 07-15-2002, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 944S Boyeee
i.e. replace the engine with a $1200 S2 engine or do the (shudder) Chevy conversion. Does anyone know if the S2 head will fit my car? Cause I could buy the S2 motor and just use the head, as it would be cheaper than buying a new head?

Do you know someone selling an S2 motor for $1,200??

John C.

overkill · 07-15-2002, 11:21 AM

You bent 8 OF YOUR VALVES!!! DAMN!!! Why won't an S2 head work?

944S Boyeee · 07-15-2002, 11:26 AM

Ya - some guy on Autotrader has an S2 engine for $1200.

......but it was in an engine fire, so who knows what it's like.

Can anyone help me out on this "bucket" thing? What does it mean when the bucket gets stuck??

944S Boyeee

AFJuvat · 07-15-2002, 11:27 AM

The "bucket" that you are referring to is the valve seat. It is probably hosed, but a machine shop should be able to get it out with no problems - if memory serves they are like $15 - 25 each.

an S2 head won't work because it is a different sized engine for starters A few other esoterical, but significant differences as well.

Also - have them check the sprockets on the camshafts for cracks!!!! The sprockets can crack or break in a broken belt/screwed tensioner scenario.

AFJuvat

944S Boyeee · 07-15-2002, 11:50 AM

AFJ - once that "bucket" comes out - will there be head damage??

Another question...

The mechanic is roughly quoting me $3500 plus tax for this whole job (if the head is fine). I already sit at $500 in labour to pull the head. That leaves me $3000. The valves should be around $500 (8 valves x $70 Canadian per valve). Now I'm at $2500. Take away another, say, $700 in labour to put it all back together. Now I'm at $1800. The work at the machine shop should be in the $300 range - that leaves $1500.

The mechanic said the parts total should be around $1500 - but if I already have paid for new valves (in the above senerio), where does the other $1000 in parts come in??? What parts (besides new belts) will I need in this job???

A comprehensive list will do......

Just joking - but can anyone chime in and tell me a list of parts I will need. I have tons of phone calls to make cause the mechanic wants me to order alllllll parts from the dealer. I can see the belts and such needing to be Porsche parts - but will everything I need only be at the dealer??

Thanks to everyone soooooo much!!

944S Boyeee

944S Boyeee · 07-15-2002, 11:51 AM

Oh - I forgot...

I will need two valve seats. One that is stuck and one that has been scratched - all the other are fine.

944S Boyeee

wolfrpi · 07-15-2002, 12:44 PM

It might make financial sense to see how much your mechanic would be willing to pay you for the car. $3500 to fix your car seems very expensive to me. Is that $US, if not what's the conversion?

944S Boyeee · 07-15-2002, 12:53 PM

The $3500 quote was in Canadian doll-hairs.

I think that would roughly be around $1700-1800 American. I still think the quote is a lil' North of the right amount.

It's funny you bring up the "sell it to the mechanic" deal. He has a 944 Turbo. I wonder if he will take my car, plus some money for his Turbo??? After all, he was the one saying my car was worth about $15,000 Canadian (and I paid $11,000) - so take in to consideration he doesn't have to pay for labour - it would only run him parts to get my car up and going again - that plus cash might be a good deal for his Turbo. I wonder.........

944S Boyeee

ae1969 · 07-15-2002, 01:08 PM

The 3500 canadian quote is about right.....the small parts that he will change will nickel and dime you to death from intake gaskets, exhaust gaskets, a seal here, a belt there................

shop around for the parts....the dealer can give you a deal if you tell them you are planning on buying a whole whack of parts.....

and more than likely they have some S parts sitting as old stock they wouldn't mind moving....

wolfrpi · 07-15-2002, 01:10 PM

I'd say give it a shot you really have nothing to lose. Sounds like he must really like you car if he put that kind of dollar figure on it. If you go with a turbo he knows that he'll be doing the maintenance so he'll win either way in his mind.

ae1969 · 07-15-2002, 01:17 PM

If he decides to sell you his Turbo for your S.... you definitely should look for a new mechanic ..LOL.............not to disrespect our NA aspirated models ....but who would be crazy enough to swap a Turbo for an S......

maybe Wolfpri will swap his turbo for your S.... since he loves them so much (<- sarcastic tone to his voice) .... LOL

951carter · 07-15-2002, 07:50 PM

I am a bit puzzled as to why he wants you to order the parts. He should get a shop discount if he is a legitimate shop. If he is not, i would really be hesitant to have him fix my car.

If you can get the turbo.......DO IT!! Your life will be much more enjoyable =) It might look the same......but it is a totally different car.

944S Boyeee · 07-16-2002, 09:18 AM

He doesn't want me to get the parts - I want to get the parts. I priced a Idle Stabilzer Valve at the dealership......$360 Canadian. I found one at a local parts place for $200. I know I will need mostly Porsche parts for this job, but don't want to pay dealer prices. He has to get all the parts or the work will not have a warrenty - but I want him to get the parts at a place OTHER than the dealership. We are working on that now.....

Just found out the head is fine (wheeeewwwwah). I must have gotten lucky (Erick can verify this)

Now some questions (again).

1. I have already been warned about the Cam Timing having to be perfectly set - are there any other key procedures I should look out for when putting this all back together?

2. Now that the head is off - what can I do as "performance upgrades". What about the head? Can anything be done at the machine shop to help increase performance? What about these "wide fire" headgaskets? I'd like to know all the possible things I can do "while he is in there".

3. My mechanic brought up the culprit belt he had to CUT off. It's part number 944.105.323.02 - it a big toothed belt. He is puzzled as to why it sheered off like 20 teeth. The waterpump was done with the belts 40,000 Klms ago (around 25,000 miles). Crappy thing is the warrenty on this particular belt was like 30 months/endless mileage. I was just over the warrenty time!!! Ahhhhh!! Now if I was still in warrenty time, what would they do? Pay for the belt, or the damage it caused?

Thanks again all!!

944S Boyeee

ae1969 · 07-16-2002, 11:57 AM

Maybe the water pump seized... or a roller.... or the belt slipped...got jammed ...ripped the hell out of it......

take your pick.

For the S their is not much that you can do with porting and polishing...Porsche got as much as they could out of that.

I would spend the extra bucks and replace every possible gasket, seal and belt, hoses etc.......the wide fire gasket is usefull if you are planning on boosting this thing (which I doubt you are) so save your money.

You will leave her brand new!

You mentioned the pistons were good? No scoring in the cylinder walls??

944S Boyeee · 07-16-2002, 12:22 PM

The whole bottom end is perfect - nothing was scraped or touched.

So, the widefire headgasket is useless to me, eh?

Could the water-pump seize after only 40,000klms? Don't they usually last longer than that? That's only about 25,000 miles.

My guess is the fact that the belt was just "old". I have the belt right in front of me and just about every tooth on it is peeling back and ready to rip off. About 20-30 teeth are gone. The belt was 3 years old.

Gotta start checking the belts more often......once she is up and running again.

944S Boyeee

ae1969 · 07-16-2002, 12:37 PM

A 3 year old belt should not look that bad?

If the pump seized you will know......it may be difficult to turn by hand.... they can go early but not very common (rare) unless the belt was extremely tight and was straining the pump...

944S Boyeee · 07-16-2002, 12:55 PM

I didn't think a 3-year-old belt should be in that condition, that is why I suspect they used old stock or something. About 3 months after the belts were done, the dealership stopped selling Porsches. They still service them, but I think their Porsche parts stock was cleared out. You can still get parts there, but not as accessible as before when they sold Porsches.

If the water-pump is bad, would this cause the teeth to rip off like that? Does a bad belt ruin the waterpump or does a bad waterpump ruin the belts???

944S Boyeee

AFJuvat · 03:16 PM

Bad pump can destroy a belt. normally by shearing teeth or just breaking it outright.

I would suggest having your waterpump and rollers checked.

Guarantee on the belt for 30 months or endless mileage.... um... I don't think so. I can't think of one place that would guarantee the belts for much more than "belt snapped on the way home after just having it replaced"

AFJuvat