Help Totaled 944s/968 conv Summer Yellow" Insurance offer is $3,300

[Ross T]

Totaled '87 944s/968 conversion with "Turbo front end" in factory Summer Yellow:

So long story short. A semi jackknifed and pierced my right front quarter panel causing the some crimping of the frame. The truck drivers insurance company has estimated repairs at $9,100. Obviously they are calling it a total loss. They are offering me $3,300 for it. This sounds darn low. I told him that I had done extensive upgrades to the car such as:

92 968 engine, with approximately 100k on it. Odometer reads 217K
944 Turbo front end complete with bumper quarter panels etc.
Koni Yellows
B&B stainless exhaust,
17' Cup rims

He says many people only want a stock car and upgrades can hurt the value. I understand this in some situations. I also understand the things other than the engine have very little return on their investment. But $3,300 when the engine itself is worth at least $2,500!

Can anyone steer me to a Porsche appraiser that may be able to prove the car was worth more?
I would love to insert a picture but I do not know how.
Is there anywhere I can get a better valuation? Ugh! Help!

[cockerpunk]

yeah an insurance company probably wont give you money for your aftermarket stuff. the value of it is basically impossible to appraise, and so its cheaper and easier for them to just give you the stock amount.

[flash968]

yeah - none of those things are considered "upgrades" to anybody in the business who is considering value. they may be cool, but they lower resale value, which is what the insurance companies look at.

that being said, i would plug in your specifics to NADA and get real book value, and send that to them. most insurance companies are required to give you book value, though that can range quite a bit. i plugged in an 87S and got over $7k retail. that should equate to $4-5k blue book. basically they need to prove that the numbers they are offering are market. KBB doesn't even list anything that old anymore. i think they are lowballing you in hopes that you won't blink.

[mikepellegrini]

You have a tough problem, but not insolvable.

An appraiser is the way to go. You won't find any comparable cars, which is what insurance companies normally use to set value.

When my sons 951 got hit and Safeco wanted to give him $6,000 for his car - which we figured was worth close to $10,000, we finally got an appraiser out of Oregon - who's name I don't recall. He specialized in classic cars.

We ended up getting close to what it was worth. But holy Christ what a battle!

Here's a summary of our saga: http://mikepellegrini.com/weblog/2008/08/10/safeco_insurance_sucks/

[ckelly78z]

Last year when someone t-boned me in my 83 944 with 105,000 miles (the car wasn't that nice), I got $5200. $3300 seems awfully low, and it is just their first offer, I bet they are authorized for 40%-50% more than that initial offer.

[starryknite]

^^^what he said. They can go higher, but they will always give you the bottom value first in hopes that you will take it.

[djnolan]

Take the car to your insurance company for an appraisal, too. If you have collision you can make a claim thru your company and they will be more sympathetic to you. They have lawyers who will recover the amount from the other guys insurance company. This is part of the reason you have insurance.

Especially in MD which is a no-fault state.

[BikePilot]

Assuming the truck's insurance is paying they should pay reasonably well. Your modifications are definitely value-increasing upgrades in my book.

You might start by saying you want blue book for a 944s of that age plus the cost (incl. labor) of the major upgrades. That's not unreasonable and should get things rolling. A bent frame sounds kinda bad, might not hurt to get medically checked out also.

[Icey1174]

I was able to argue a higher totaled payment for an extra $2K on a car years ago. They are getting a Blue Book Value, not what was totaled. Sue them for more. The lawyer will cost more than the $9100 in repairs. I think they would pay around $5K without too much hassle.

[James Chimney]

I too have well over 14k into my 944, so I have Agreed Value Insurance through Hagertys for 12k as I add more to t he car, (Wilwood brakes, Sport seats) I will up that amount) then let Hagertys go after their money and you just start shopping, sorry for your lose, sounds like a sweet car, take the $$ and part it out if you can't the an appraiser out

[veleno]

When ever I do mods to the car which raises the value I always have it added to my insurance so in cases like these everything is covered. Good luck and I hope you get what it's worth. If not parting it should bring more money in.

[Eric_Oz_S2]

Here in Australia, we have the option of agreed value insurance. Is this available in the us with little additional premium? For example, my old Peugeot was written off (other drivers fault), and although the car was worth maybe $7k, the agreed value was $10,500 which I received as settlement. And it doesn't cost much more in premiums. I have the same agreement with my s2.

[RedBaron]

When someone hit my brothers 1984 944, the insurance offered him a very small amount of money. He pretty much rebuilt the entire car, so obviously he was not happy with what they were offering him. He wrote a letter to PCA and they gave him an estimation of what they thought the car was worth (IIRC it was insanely high). He was able to use that as leverage to get a decent amount of money back. I would try and do the same thing if I were you. I would also use Excellence's price guide for the 944.

Good luck!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Don't take it. You'll need to do a lot of research into comps which of course may be difficult given the unique nature of the car, but start someplace. Find vehicles of similar year and condition with as many similar modifications as you can. Get ACTUAL sale prices, not just asking prices if you can. This is really your only leverage against the ins. co.

Remember they are not your friend. They are - and will - trying to rip you off and pad their bottom line. They will hope that you need a settlement and a check right away and use that as leverage to low-ball you into taking a crummy agreed-upon number. If you have another car and aren't desperate for a check right away, make sure they're aware of that and that you're willing to take months to get the fair value if that's what it takes.

If most of the drivetrain pieces are intact and undamaged as a result of the accident, mightn't you be able to get those back and transplant them onto another car or sell independently? If so, you could make that a negotiating point and insist that you get the carcass back untouched and you'll handle parting it out. If they tell you it has to go to an approved salvage outfit or some such B.S. don't believe it. They most certainly can sell it to you or anyone else they want to once they have the title to it - that is if you have the space, tools, time and will to get it back and part it out.

Don't ever talk to the other insurance company's representative. You don't have to be rude but just say that you can't discuss it with them or comment on it with them - you're handling it all through your own company.

The whole car insurance industry is a crock of schyte. The whole thing is based on the notion of supposedly making one "whole" but the value of your frustration, time, etc. amounts to absolutely $0 when all is said and done. I wish I had good news for you but the chances are you're in for an uphill long slog - I went through something similar after my 951 was totaled a few years ago. Scumbag ins. co. tried to claim I'd agreed to a stated value of about $2k which I had not. I challenged them to present me with a document that I'd signed saying I agreed to that knowing they didn't have it. Finally after a couple of weeks of bickering about that they started to play ball and I ended up with an offer that was a bit more fair and which enabled me to buy my Targa - and I got the RS America seats and a few other valuable goodies back out of my 951 too.

I've had to unfortunately deal with several insurance company claims over the years for everything from a car fire (the 951) to vandalism to a blatant hit-and-run on my car to "plain vanilla" accidents - both when I was the person at fault and the person not-at-fault. In every single case the insurance companies tried to dick me over initially and I had to dig my heels in, put in a lot of extra hours and work into fighting it and eventually get something at least somewhat fair. I feel for you. It sucks to go through, especially when it's no fault of your own and you're a victim who's then being spat upon by someone who you pay good money to. I'll stop here so I don't write a book about it, but suffice to say the best way forward is to do your homework, accept the fact that these guys will not just write you a check for what you think the car is worth but that you CAN make a case to prove it or provide other options that enable you to walk away without feeling like you've just been sodomized quite so much (such as the "get it back and part it out" option I mentioned - there are certainly others - everything is negotiable).

For a car of any value I would strongly recommend a stated-value policy in the future. My modded (2.8) 944 is handled this way. My other 944 is nice but is more or less stock and I'm okay with the thought of losing it for $3k-$4k if I'm ever so unfortunate as to get rear-ended by somebody. It's just a sad reality that we all need to live with - the system is set up to discourage that which we all love to do so much, which is to value, cherish and take good care of our cars. There is a reason so many cars out there are plain, boring, uninspired, Trabant-like appliances. From a strictly financial standpoint that's what makes the most sense, but we all are in this hobby because it doesn't make sense and it's an activity driven by passion rather than wonkish bean-counter logic.

I wish you well with your fight and hope it doesn't drag on too long, but don't rush to an agreement if you don't need to - any leverage the ins. co. has against you that you can take away (patience, for example) is beneficial. Ordinarily they hold all the cards and they most certainly know it and try to exploit it. The best thing you can do is try to take their unfair advantages away and hope they'll play ball to avoid dragging it out forever (they don't want unresolved claims sitting around either).

Best of luck.

[plyhammer]

A month ago I bought a 944 and it was totaled on the way to being delivered. They settled at $3600 and the car didn't sound near as nice as yours. ( buy back was $200)

[jeff968]

Sorry to hear about your situation. That is why i keep stated value insurance on my 968s. No matter what happens, they'll cover it and make sure the car repair is funded or that I'm issued a value that I feel is representative of teh car's value. I have my 92 cab and the 95 coupe at $35K.

[Tervuren]

When I get my '84 944 back on the road, definitely going to need agreed value insurance!

The idea of insurance - is to replace what was lost. You want a good running 944 with a 968 engine and 951 bumper. It doesn't take much to look at the value of a used 944 engine($300) vs a used 968 engine($3,000) to see that the 968 adds value to the car.

If your drivetrain is intact, look into getting the wreck.

[flash968]

be aware that there are limits to what they will agree to cover on those stated value policies. i could never get what i have into the car. the last time i checked, i was going to be hard pressed to get them to cover more than $40k.

also, that type of insurance comes with restrictions, such as a prohibition on track use, annual mileage limitations, liability limits, and prohibition on many modifications (such as aftermarket forced induction). it is more useful as supplemental insurance, not primary insurance.

i haven't added it yet, but will be shortly, assuming i keep the car. i no longer track it, never exceed what they limit you to in annual mileage, and have an umbrella policy which gets me around the $300k liability limits. still, the cap on payout is a problem, but far better than what my AAA policy would pay if i totaled it. however, i still need to get a waiver on the forced induction. it has already been done once though, due to the kit being CARB legal, so i shouldn't have any issues there.

[Gawernator]

That's way too low of an offer. I wouldn't be happy with less than 6k, but CA prices are higher. I could probably sell my 944 for $7k. Good luck, prepare to fight

[flash968]

the issue with insurance companies is that they will never give you retail on a traditional policy. they will only give you wholesale. so, if a car might "sell" for $7k, you're probably only going to get about $5k from the insurance.

unfortunately it is hard to get a book value on a car this old. kelly used to have a gold book, but now it's nada, and they don't have specifics listed, so it's really hard to value the car.