944 v 911

[JBC]

The Porsche 911 is an awesome sports car and I hope to own one. I really like them. They are the flagship product of the company and simply a great product. Yet, I am surprised to be saying this, the 944 might just be a better driver.

Since I do not own and drive a 911 regularly, I'm probably disqualified to make this statement, but, it is what I think so far. I have driven many 911s and one for several days. It was a well sorted 911. It was fun to drive. I loved it.

My current 1983 944 has new motor mounts, new clutch hydraulics, tires, belts, oil and filter change and several other minor maintenance actions (flushed brake lines, etc.) and it drives incredibly well. It is smooth and nimble and sounds great. Sitting in the seat and running through the gears in the Blue Ridge Mountains is just great fun. The driving experience makes you feel confident the car will behave rationally and the same every time. Plus, getting it out on the open interstate at 80+MPH, the engine and tranny just hum along. I pushed it up to 100 and it I was totally comfortable and the car still felt stable and smooth and was ready to give more.

I know the 911 is a fantastic car but this 944 is a fine example in its own right. I'm finding it to be, dare I say it, more fun than the 911. I can't imagine what the turbo must do.

JBC

[9FF]

You are absolutely correct sir!

I prefer driving my 944na to my 996 that has more than double the power. Not that the 911 is a bad car, in fact it's very good at what it does on the street, however it doesn't give me the satisfaction I get daily driving the 944. I guess the 911 is a bit too effortless and has less feedback for my liking.

Now saying that, a well sorted 911 in capable hands on the track is a different animal. I have taken 911s on a track and I cannot get close to the times the good 911 drivers manage and I've had a lot of track time. I think the 911's require a lot of time to master but they excel at what they do when you get to grips with them.

On the street though, I'll take the 944 just because it has the feedback and road manners that make even a novice driver like me feel like a king.

[cockerpunk]

944 is certainly a more easy to live with car than a similar vintage 911.

the 911 is a unique car, both mechanically and dynamically.

[nickfaris]

The 930 is where its at though. Love them, although i dearly love my 944. the 930 is an amazing car as well. i have driven 4 or 5 different 930's and they are all different, i have driven 3 different 944's and they all feel very similar, so you know what your getting.

[fejjj]

944 Turbo>930

Handles significantly better with similar power.

Also a MINT 944 turbo can be had for less than 1/4 the price.

[Dantilla]

I've had both 911s and 944s. While very different, both are truly great cars.

[JBC]

Originally Posted by nickfaris

The 930 is where its at though. Love them, although i dearly love my 944. the 930 is an amazing car as well. i have driven 4 or 5 different 930's and they are all different, i have driven 3 different 944's and they all feel very similar, so you know what your getting.

930 would be fabulous. Don't have $75k for one. The 951 is a bargain. I figure having a 944 NA and then a turbo could be doable.

[geno951]

They are not the same cars.

951 is had for much less money, it carries a totally different prestige than the 930.

930 is had for much more money, it carries a different prestige than the 951.

For racing, I'd put the money into a 951. For collecting, a 90% perfect 930 is something to be had.


I have a 44. I have a modified 951S. I'd still love to own a bone stock or outlaw 930.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[JBC]

Geno, I'm with you. For now, with two in college, the 944 is great. Enjoyable to drive and paid in cash. Even if I wanted a good NA 911, I'm gonna pay $30k+.

[wildcat077]

I have an 89 911 in which i put a 95 3.6 and had been doing DE's for 5 years with it and i also have an 83 944 SP2 race car which is a completely different car to drive ...

The 911 was a lot of car to drive fast on a race track while the 944 which is actually faster per lap at Circuit Mont Tremblant is MUCH easier to drive and a LOT more forgiving as well.
I can't comment on a 944 as far as a street car as i have never driven one on the street but for weekend cruises the 911 is a real treat as well as an eye turner as compared to the newer generic models.

And yes,the better NA 911's are starting to fetch a lot of money !

Cheers
Phil

[guru944]

I find my 944S is more fun and agile to drive on a more regular basis east and west out here than the 911SE really for the warmer months and weekends.
I typically drive the Carrera on Friday evenings gatherings to Bellmore Train Station and any given Sunday here in Long Island NY is a Porsche Day. Both are awesome cars all around. Later...

[911tracker85]

all incredible cars.

got my '85 911 in '89. morphed into DE/street, now back to street.

got a '84 928S for driver when the 911 was in track trim.

a couple years ago I resurrected an '87 944S for my Bro. then built an '86 951 for my new DE/street. after putting on some 'rebuilt engine' break-in miles, decided it needed a new SPEC stage III clutch and alum flywheel before it goes to the track. so back on the lift now.

hiway cruising, I prefer the 928. smooth, confortable, and handles great for a heavy car. the 944s are also good on the hiway, comfortable, and easy to drive when just running around (especially when AC is needed). For back road fun, I prefer the 911. long time ago I read an article that commented 'older 911 is hard to drive easy and easy to drive hard'. true that, right up to the point where you push to the edge and it turns an bites you. definitely a more demanding car to drive.

the 911 is just so visceral, sound, sensations just incredible.

I have been told my 951 will be a faster DE track car and much easier to drive hard/fast. we'll see if it is as much fun.

I really loved the 911 NA on the track for the years I did that. but decided to retire it when I was sitting still after a 720 spin across the track at MidOhio and almost into the wall. after all the rebuild and upgrades and miles, it still runs and looks too great to stuff it or blow it up. read a comment on another thread recently about DE. don't take a car to DE you cannot afford to leave there.

waiting patiently in the other bay is the 78 930 clone for me to begin in earnest the full refresh. and compared to my NA 911, I am expecting 'visceral, sounds, sensations' on steroids. when done I plan to bring it up to a level that will definitely justify the 'Widow Maker' moniker.

so it all depends on how you plan to use the car.

[962porsche]

I own 36 cars it this time 11 of them are Porsche's
1983 944 spec
1985 944 stock track loaner
1986 944 stock street car
1987 951 very low miles 38K
1984 948 sbc 350 race car
1985 948 LS7 tube chassis composite body race car
1989 911 carrera
1993 968
2003 996
1993 928 GTS
1988 962

not one of the cars is a apples to apples comparison !
the 944 is a more forgiving car at speed then a 911 based car is .
the 911 is a much better designed car in some ways and not so much in other areas .
the ergonomics of the 911 bodied car is much better then the 944 . the early 944's you have the steering wheel in your lap being set way to low for a tall driver . they did kind of fix it as years went on but still not the best . then you have the E-brake that is right in the way when you set it to park .

the reason I have a 944 loaner for friends to see what track driving is about is simply because the 944 is very forgiving if you do some thing real dumb .
they are not a car that will bite you like the 911 will .
there is also the fact that if they total out a 944 it's not the end of the world 6K to the cost of a 911 is much different .

I would not take any of my Porsche's other then the 944 to go shopping . if the 944 gets a dent in it that's life but if it happens to the 911 it really sucks ! I would get real pissed if I just had a little chip on my 911 !

they are both very good cars but totally different to drive and one is not any better to drive then the other just different .

[Rasta Monsta]

Ha, if your handbrake is in the way when set, it is adjusted wrong!

[mytrplseven]

I'm on my 3rd 944 and love the fact that the 50/50 balance makes them so enjoyable to drive on curvy roads. Now that I'm in Florida though, I've lost that because the roads are straight and flat. We recently looked at a 911 to replace my wife's Boxster, but can't for the life of me think why? We aren't going to get more than straight-line acceleration increase and she doesn't even open her Boxster up enough to go "full chat" with it. I'm trying to get her back to reality before we waste a bunch of money unnecessarily.

[bdaczar]

I've had two 911s, a '75 U.S. Carrera (stock) and a '74 U.S. Carrera (a bit butchered by a PO) that became an RGruppe/track day beast. After those I had an '83 944.

'75 Carrera - My first Porsche. Bought it used on a Friday afternoon and was on the track for my first HPDE the next morning. Incredibly agile. Once you got the hang of that "lift throttle over-steer" thing there wasn't a safe apex in town. It relocated to Germany.

'74 Carrera - Backdated to '73 RS LW configuration by a local builder (beautiful work, Dave), ~2100 lbs wet, cage, fuel cell, built 2.7 with 46 IDA Webers, etc.... A beast. Moved like a pissed off cat. Sadly, it was sold before sorting - and promptly blown up - "No sir, the engine was fine when you bought it. These kinds of cars don't come with rev limiters."

'83 944 - $2500 beater. By far, the most fun. I TRIED to push it too far. I TRIED to do stupid things with it. The darn thing would just do whatever I asked of it, with ease. Never had it on a track but I lived in SoCal, the land of many canyon roads. It provided some of the most driving fun I've ever experienced. This one even instructed me on the importance of timing belt maintenance - the hard way.

I'm looking for a suitable 944 NA right now.

[VirginiaF1]

Famed endurance driver Derek Bell once drove 911 and 951S models on track at Willow Springs in succession:

"The 911 has more peak power (282 to 247) and slightly less curb weight (2976 versus 2998 ). At first, Derek thinks it is pulling better coming onto Willow's straight, but after another car swap, he realizes he has been misled. Around the long, climbing Turn Two (see sidebar), he has the 944 wide open and going much faster long before the straight. In the 911, you arrive at the apex exit and can then floor it. You open it up and it feels stronger. But the 944 is already on the power and on the boost. You're flat all the way through!
"Not surprisingly, it is also faster around the track. The 944 circulates Willow's 2.5-mile length in the 1:41 range, averaging 89.1 mph. The 911, its driver always working harder, flailing at the wheel and cursing colorfully, can only manage 1:43, for 87.4 mph. Section times through Willow's tightest portion, from the entrance of Turn Three to the exit of Turn Seven, show the 944 building almost a second's lead during the low-speed tossing.
It clocks 33.6 seconds to the 911's 34.5"

[porschetub]

interesting answers,my 44 never impressed me round town too much,always tractable but kind of difficult in stop start situations,but the open road,thats just so differant, push them hard and they just hook in to the corners more.
The limits of the rear engine 911 can be discovered with unpleasent results in the same situation if not driven by an educated driver,the 44 is more tolerant to this for sure.
The differance in horsepower between the 2 same year models can't always be an advantage if it can't be applied to the road.

[wildcat077]

Originally Posted by VirginiaF1

Famed endurance driver Derek Bell once drove 911 and 951S models on track at Willow Springs in succession:

"The 911 has more peak power (282 to 247) and slightly less curb weight (2976 versus 2998 ). At first, Derek thinks it is pulling better coming onto Willow's straight, but after another car swap, he realizes he has been misled. Around the long, climbing Turn Two (see sidebar), he has the 944 wide open and going much faster long before the straight. In the 911, you arrive at the apex exit and can then floor it. You open it up and it feels stronger. But the 944 is already on the power and on the boost. You're flat all the way through!
"Not surprisingly, it is also faster around the track. The 944 circulates Willow's 2.5-mile length in the 1:41 range, averaging 89.1 mph. The 911, its driver always working harder, flailing at the wheel and cursing colorfully, can only manage 1:43, for 87.4 mph. Section times through Willow's tightest portion, from the entrance of Turn Three to the exit of Turn Seven, show the 944 building almost a second's lead during the low-speed tossing.
It clocks 33.6 seconds to the 911's 34.5"

Not sure where you get 282 hp from a 911 as a stock mid/late 80's 911 is rated at 217 hp ...
That would not be a fair comparison with a 951 turbo which by the way IS quicker around a track than a stock 911

Just sayin ...

Cheers
phil

[smudo]

Quote de VirginiaF1

Not sure where you get 282 hp from a 911 as a stock mid/late 80's 911 is rated at 217 hp ...

That would not be a fair comparison with a 951 turbo which by the way IS quicker around a track than a stock 911



Just sayin ...



Cheers

phil

The 951s came in 1988 and were produced till around 1992 (?) thus maybe it was compared to 964? However, standard 964 as much I now also had 230 or 250 hp?

A month ago I participated in hilclimbing event and there was slightly modified 964 (bigger tires, lowered, clutch and exhaust) with 230 hp. The course was quite short - half a mile with 3 fast turns. My time was around a second faster (almost standard 951 with 220 ps with hard compound fuel saving 205/55 tires in the front that created a lot of understeer). This shows that these cars are quite similar in terms of how fast can they go.

Returning to the original topic - I think that you may not directly compare those cars. The 911s are iconic cars because they are so different from other sport cars and have many good qualities. I would love to own a 911 and would not care that it is (or is not) slower on track compared to 951.