Max HP for stock 5.0L internals?

[Charley B]

Originally Posted by rhjames

Careful, John.....they'll be pounding the doors in.....again....--Russ

knock knock

[lizard928s]

see if I had NOS the amount I would spend on NOS in a year would make it far more cost effective to get a turbo setup :P

[Danglerb]

Cost of tickets should exceed the cost of NOS shouldn't it?

Pretty much how you go is personal preference. For me, I intend to stay NA with a Porsche block up to the expense of 5.4L, then I think I would try a different block like a 383 Chevy. There is a guy in CO selling 505 Chevy long blocks that would be real sweet, 650 HP and 680 torque for $6500. Kinda doubt I will want more than a NA Porsche block should be good for though.

[Herr-Kuhn]

RH...It's a well known fact that lots of guys over there have been huffing on the laughing gas far too long.

I still stang by the turbo as the best solution for this car...it just does everything very well.

[m21sniper]

Turbos are great, if you have $5k plus.

A 75 shot of nitrous costs under $300.00

[Herr-Kuhn]

Yes, but you also have to add in the cost of filling that bottle all the time. That's no "laughing matter" (pardon the pun). There is no doubt, to do it all the way takes a lot of money, but I look at it this way...with the path I'm providing, one can easily be motoring a super car for $25K. It's reliable and proven technology with no band-aids. Consider what a 930 costs making this kind of power and to think about getting that power in a 944T is super difficult unless you are pumping mega boost on race fuel. $ for $ a 928TT is a heck of a machine. We were at P20 this weekend and I was sitting across the street watching people looking at the TT. Very few "drive-bys"...most people take a 2nd look and you can tell who the motor heads are. I like watching them try to find the turbos...that's the best part. Mike Valentive (V1 radar guru) spent quite a few minutes looking at my car. It's cool to have something different and unique. I don't consider the cash outlay to build such a car as high by any means. Valentine drives a Carrera GT...and let me tell you he drives the car, that was no show queen. I think that is really cool...he's a car nut like the rest of us, he just has a tad bit more money than the rest of us.

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn

RH...It's a well known fact that lots of guys over there have been huffing on the laughing gas far too long.

yep----it's great stress reliever..........



--Russ

[N2O-SHARK]

Let's compare for a moment
-Cost of N20 system with all the bells and whistles - $1000 : $1500 for direct port.
-Cost of 1 bottle fill $60
-ROI when selling the car..100% because you can transfer the N2O to your next vehicle.


-Cost of TT set up $11,500
-Cost of refills on Turbo..Zero.
-ROI when selling the car..25-50% tops. Turbo and SC cars sometimes sell for less than stock. Seldom can you get even 1/2 what you put into the car.
-Wear and tear on the car becuase the Turbo is so addicting and you can't keep your right foot up...$1x2.356^12

Explaining to your wife that you'll recoop the extra cost of the Turbo over the next 6 years..priceless.




All in good fun!

[rhjames]

Mike--

one thing you forgot in your cost comparison:


the look on your wife's face when you start talking with "gas".......



That's not just priceless, it's well worth getting a bottle filled every now and then!

--Russ

[Mule]

Originally Posted by N2O-SHARK

Let's compare for a moment
-Cost of N20 system with all the bells and whistles - $1000 : $1500 for direct port.
-Cost of 1 bottle fill $60
-ROI when selling the car..100% because you can transfer the N2O to your next vehicle.


-Cost of TT set up $11,500
-Cost of refills on Turbo..Zero.
-ROI when selling the car..25-50% tops. Turbo and SC cars sometimes sell for less than stock. Seldom can you get even 1/2 what you put into the car.
-Wear and tear on the car becuase the Turbo is so addicting and you can't keep your right foot up...$1x2.356^12

Explaining to your wife that you'll recoop the extra cost of the Turbo over the next 6 years..priceless.




All in good fun!

No comparison. A well done turbo is power on tap 24/7. Turbo power is there from 3000 rpms up, every time you touch the gas. Turbo power should improve hwy gas mileage. No concerns about bottle pressure, changing bottles etc. No tacky solenoids, lines and wiring under the hood. No bottle on the back deck.

If you think John cut the value of his car in half with the installation of his system, you're tripping.

PS There's a reason no mfr's sell nitrous models.

[N2O-SHARK]

I've already said I was sold on the turbo idea, even mentioned the same points you did.

Sense of Humor..Ailse 9..

As for the value, look at the last SC Carl tried to sell on ebay. Or the SC GTS on ebay. Top bids are no where near the value of the car let alone the added SC. If you get lucky and find a shark owner who wants a DIY turbo or SC kit, you'll get good money. But the average joe wants a stock car and in fact is scared to buy a DIY turbo or SC car. Regardless of the work put into design and testing of the current SC and turbo systems available, the average shark buyer would still consider it a DIY system. No offense to those who have designed great systems. It's no different for any tuner car.

If you put a $11K turbo system on an '85 worth $8K tops, you won't get $19K when you sell it. You'll get $10K tops and that is about 50%.

Nitrous is cheap, safe and great for straight line fun. But it's very limited. The comparison was made in fun.

[m21sniper]

Again i have to agree with N2O.

Adding a turbo or SC does very little to add to the value of the car and in some cases can hurt it.

I've ran nitrous systems in the past, there are no hiccups or niggling details. You just fill the bottle when it's empty. As long as the bottle is full you have on demand HP anytime, anywhere.

[Herr-Kuhn]

N20...I'd lay money my Twin can land $20,000 very quickly. 3 years ago I sold a 1980 Twin Turbo for $8,700...that car cost me $3000 to purchase and then I built the system for it. Of course I lost a little on that car as it was R&D, but it wasn't the 50% you state.

Any of it is only worth what someone will pay for it, but parked next to the same year 928 with the same overall condition I'd lay money my car can bring at least 50% more than a stock NA car. This isn't a cheap bolt-on...it's a fully engineered system that has been integrated with the car. There is a difference. Does a RUF 930 bring more money than a standard 930? Will a Lingenfelter Vette land more than a standard Vette? If I see nitrous on a car I will probably just turn and walk away, regardless of the condition. It's an apple to an orange comparison you are making. Comparing an engineered system to a cheap bolt-on is not a fair comparison. Why?...because it uses a consumable fluid and you can't leave your foot on it without blowing the engine. Use it sparingly and it's a cheap laugh, but it's not a tool that belongs on a Porsche. I feel the same way about water spray in place of an intercooler...use if for a little extra kick, sure, but don't bank the safety of your engine on a consumable fluid. That's just not the way I do things.

No offence implied here, but comparing a centrifugally supercharged 928 to a twin turbo 928 is again not an apples to apples comparison. I've seen all those systems and the way they package...it's just not aesthetically pleasing at all and they don't perform like a turbo does regardless of what some people want to claim, make up stories about or choose to believe. It's a different type of system...designed for those who want a lower cost bolt-on that can be removed at a later date if desired. My approach was entirely different...form follows function and performance was high on that list.

The difference is worth every extra penny.

[rhjames]

with all due respect John, yes, you can leave your foot in it with Nitrous....(you probably didn't mean to write it that way...but-)

as for what belongs on a Porsche, you will have a thousand answers and opinions for that question. (ask me how I know...)



all power adding systems have a point of diminishing returns, including causing an expensive 928 engine to hand grenade.

understanding it's limits, and staying within those limits will make the experience more enjoyable.

yours is by far (in my opinion) a well thought out system, one that will provide the consumer plenty of enjoyment at relatively competitive pricing, and doesn't need to be argued about every time someone has a different approach.

--Russ

[N2O-SHARK]

My system shuts down the instant I go lean. The fun may stop but being on a consumable fluid does not mean you grenade your engine when you run out. You just go back to N/A.

It's really all what you wan't to get out of the car. Straight line fun with the ricers on a Friday night..N2O gets itdone cheap. 1/4 MIle fun, N2O gets it done cheap. Auto X, road racing, time attack, N2O sucks...

If you're addicted to the right foot, N2O sucks. But in moderation the power is there when you need it, and affordably. MY wife doesn;t even look twice if I spend $60 on a refill. Now if I PAYPAL'd for a SC or Turbo..the finance minister would notice..

[Herr-Kuhn]

N2O...Now we know who is wearing the pants at your crib...this makes your viewpoint more understanding to me.

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn

N2O...Now we know who is wearing the pants at your crib...this makes your viewpoint more understanding to me.

you're learning something new every day....!

it's a good thing.


--Russ

[N2O-SHARK]

Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn

N2O...Now we know who is wearing the pants at your crib...this makes your viewpoint more understanding to me.

I can neither confirm nor denie that statement...

YOu know if I could swing the money, my shark would be at your shop right now.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by rhjames

all power adding systems have a point of diminishing returns, including causing an expensive 928 engine to hand grenade.

understanding it's limits, and staying within those limits will make the experience more enjoyable.

yours is by far (in my opinion) a well thought out system, one that will provide the consumer plenty of enjoyment at relatively competitive pricing, and doesn't need to be argued about every time someone has a different approach.

--Russ

Turbocharging is far and away, the king of power adders. They dominate every class of racing where they are allowed, no belt to throw, no parasitic power loss, as reliable as the engine itself.

N20 is basically 1/4 mi stuff. Supercharger is next. Turbo is the king.

[N2O-SHARK]

Not to change the subject too much now that we have determined N2O is the best power adder...

I think for the 5 speed guys, they will meet the tranny limits before the engine limits. Although I have yet to have issues with my intermitent use of giggle gas, I have heard 3rd gear doesn't take much north of 450RWHP to pull teeth.