Missing VIN?

[SolReaver]

Hey folks:

I have bee looking around at the lower end of the 928 market lately and have noticed a curious thing....several of the cars I looked at are missing the VIN on the A pillar. When I saw the first one, I said "that is odd" and wrote it off as a fluke. The second one seemed odd as well. Today I saw a parts car which was my THIRD 928 missing the tag. What is with this? I know that the missing tag is a red flag and I walked away quickly. Besides, It was a molested, abused, wreck.

My question is...Why the missing tags? Does this mean that the car has been scrapped? Do the tags make their way back to whatever Department handles that sort of thing? Did someone use the VIN from oner car to legitimize another? In the unlikely event I lost my senses and purchased the car, wouldn't the missing tag pretty much make registration impossible? Can you even get replacement tags?

[Danglerb]

928's by the numbers ....

Passenger side fender about a foot forward from windshield just under the hood stamped in the metal, driver door jam manufacturer and importer official stickers, something (no standard I know of) on driver A pillar. The fender may have Wp0zzz but the rest should be the same VIN.

Motor ID, top front of block, look straight down just to right of passenger side radiator hose stamped in metal, M28/XX SSSSSS, XX is version info, SSSSSS the last part anyway is serial number.

Trans ID, bottom of differential, goes from left to right stamped in metal, starts with G28 for manual and A22 or A28 for auto, G28/XX YY SSSSSS, same as motor, but serial likely in both cases will not exactly match, just be within some range.

Highway Patrol, I think, is the agency that takes a dim view of items without serial numbers.

A pillar VIN on my Euros are just strips of plastic with the info scratched into it, kind of like one of those engraving places do on a trophy etc. Plenty of reasons why it might get messed up, but the other two, major red flags. I'd talk to a cop.

[Dean_Fuller]

If the car was totaled and rebuilt in some states they remove the standard VIN and add a new one in the door jamb.

[SolReaver]

Yes, the VIN on the front fender is the original VIN, the A pillar VIN should match the last numbers. I did not know that the engine Numbers should match. The first one was a euro, and the owner had what looked like an abused tag that did match the fender vin...so, no big deal. The other two....nothing to check the fender vin to. I am guessing that, Similar to the 924, 944 and autos in general, there are hidden VINs that one could check to be sure. For the last two, My reaction was to just walk away.

Dean: No, nothing in the door jamb. I looked.

I am thinking the vehicle was junked, Which is why it was listed as a parts car. I can only imagine that the nightmare it would be to get it registered. would be as bad as the nightmare it would be to get it running. Pass.

As far as calling the cops...I am pretty sure they have better things to do. Some 928 person who needs 82 MY parts might need it. It is listed as an "S" with a 5 liter. It is neither. I jumped thinking it might have been a later year. Turned out to be a ratty 82 4.5 (M28/16) missing engine pieces and with the factory birds nest under the hood, hence no engine pics in the ad. The pics truly do not do it justice. It is worse looking in person. Similar to a date off of the internet. Go figure. Oh well..ya gotta kiss a lot of frogs...

It is just funny about running into this many missing VINs. Is it a 928 thing? or am I just lucky?

[Rixter]

early cars don't have the a-pillar tag unless it was added after importation
the pillar tags became standard with introduction of the 17 digit universal vin in 81
as noted above, if a car was rebuilt it very likely may have a different/new vin assigned
also.. I've noticed any RoW imported thru NY almost always have a diff vin assigned
also... early car inner fender vin is same as car vin, this also changed with introduction of universal 17 digit series
there are no door jamb vin tags on early cars except those added during importation

any other vin questions?

PS... forgot to add... 78-79 (and possibly 80) have TWIN vin cars, same serial # but different destination code
ie: 9288100034 for RoW, 9288200034 for NA spec

[Normy]

I'm fairly certain that cars sold for use in Europe [ROW cars] did NOT come with this from the factory. My '85 ROW has some sort of metal tag riveted onto the A-pillar, whereas the USA models have an actual VIN tag on the dashboard.

When I've been in Europe, I've noticed that cars in general don't have the dashboard VIN tag.

Under the carpet in the hatch, to the right of the spare tire opening is a white paper sticker attached to the painted metal that has the VIN, the engine number/type, tranny number and type, color, interior, and option codes. I don't know if this sticker existed for all years, but mine has it.

My '85 does not have the usual factory ID sticker on the door jamb- it has something that the federalizer stuck on the door jamb and lists the VIN, date, GVWR/GAWR, and mileage upon import. Along with this is a sticker that has a bar code and a partial VIN. Look for these on your car.

N!

[Normy]

Stickers:

[Rixter]

other vin locations:
forward of eng comp by lower hood latch and pass side just forward of the strut, seen in reverse from outside but can be seen correctly with a decent flashlight in the eng comp

[Danglerb]

I haven't seen that last pict stamping before, I'll have to look next time I am under one.

I've heard that if you get caught in one of those road side safety checks, no serial on engine or tranny and you may end up with problems as Highway Patrol assumes its stolen.

Serial number on motor or tranny doesn't exactly match the VIN, its just usually close (how close I have no clue).

[Xlot]

You could also check for the sticker under the carpet in the rear hatch. Not always there on old cars, but if it is, you know its original

Plus it'll have some of the option codes