Which generation will be more collectible someday...16V or 32V cars?

[Yellowb1rd]

Certainly don't want to start a fire here, but wondering if you think that the 79-84, or the 85 + 32V US cars will be more valuable. I prefer the 32V cars, and they seem to have a higher purchase price in general than the 16V versions, but will that change in 10-20 years? Which series (or years) will be more/most collectible?

Also, a side question. Although the Euro models are rated at 300 HP, they don't seem to be ANY faster than the lower output US models - 16V or 32V. In fact, the performance/road test data I've seen isn't very impressive for such high output (for that time period). Is this because of different horsepower measurement techniques? SAE Gross (BHP) vs. Net, etc... This happened in the US with domestic cars - mechanically identical cars in 1971/72 having a lower horsepower rating than a 1969/70 model, for example.

[harborman]

Only time will tell!

[fb111]

I don't know where you found your data but I have an old article where the author found the Euro S to be just as fast as his GT up to about 100 mph.

[Yellowb1rd]

Well, here's a link from our very own forum

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-928-technical-forum/312576-euro-model-928-porsches.html

83 US 4spd A/T: 0-60: 7.2, 1/4 mile: 15.5
83 US 5spd: 0-60: 6.8, 1/4 mile: 15.2

80 Euro 3spd A/T: 0-60: 7.7, 1/4 mile: 16.2
80 Euro 5spd: 0-60: 6.6, 1/4 mile: 15.2


85 US 4spd A/T: 6.8, 1/4 mile: 14.9
85 US 5spd: 0-60: 6.3, 1/4 mile: 14.2

[fb111]

The driver of the euro 5 sp must have missed a couple shifts. Maybe its a Euro 4.5 liter and not a Euro S 4.7 liter.

[Yellowb1rd]

Anyone have OFFICIAL data and legitimate road test results from a trusted source (Road and Track, Motor Trend, etc)?

[19psi]

I think Fixer mentioned this a while back and it's a good question.

Some dyno results done in the US from a stock Euro would be great.

It could also be how ricers get all giddy over J-Spec engines having more HP over US versions. Add in the ultra high octane needed for those J-Spec engines and it becomes a mythical holy grail item they all dream of importing some day.
Seems impressive until you notice they use Newtons for their torque calculations. Change things around and the HP becomes the same or less than the US version as Japan has even stricter emissions requirements than the US.
And the super high octane requirement? Different calculations again. Their 98 RON would be about equal to our 93.

[fb111]

I have owned both an 84 US 5sp and Euro S 5sp and there is quite a difference. The euro has 2.75 vs 2.20 diff ratio, more compression, bigger valves and throttle body, sportier cams and it weighs a hundred pounds or two less.

[Yellowb1rd]

Not trying to start an argument here, but perhaps it's more of a perceived difference, unless you had a modified one. I doubt any stock Euro will beat a GT, or even an S4 in any gear, or at any speed. 0-60 data for the 85 (manual) and up US 32V motors show times consistently at or below 6 seconds. Even the following official Porsche dealer promo video backs up the performance specs that I pointed out earlier for the Euro model. The specifications and performance begins at 50 seconds into the video. If you don't believe me, watch the video.

BTW, those specs mentioned in said video pertain to the EURO model - 0-100km (62MPH) in 6.6 seconds, and that's no where near the performance for the S3,S4, and GTS models. Sure, those specs show the Euro to be a bit faster than the 16V US models of similar years, but not that much for a supposed 70HP difference in the Euro-car's favor. I'd like to see actual (measured at a dynometer) and official horsepower and performance data for the Euro model, if anyone has that info. I think the Euro model is cool, but I was shocked and disappointed with its relatively dismal performance based on the data that is out there. It should just be a lot faster, because it's supposedly lighter, is equipped with lower/shorter rear-end gearing, and has at least 300HP. The physics just don't add up.

Porsche 928 S Dealer Promo Video Commercial - Carjam Car Radio Show 2012 - YouTube

BTW, anyone have thoughts my original question about what years they predict will have the most demand/value?

[Pete R]

The one in the best shape I think will dictate the value. A 928 isn't a collectable car now and never will be. These are 30 years old now and you can find them all over for short money. Sure there's small pockets of us guys that like them, but there's not enough of us.

[SanDiego928]

All I know is that my car in particular is the fastest and funnest driving machine ever created with the best color and the most collectible.

I just came in from a romp in the hills, I might be slightly prejudiced.

[fb111]

If someone has the August 1990 Excellence magazine there is an article on a 1990GT. The writer compares the cars performance to his Euro S 5 speed. I unfortunately threw mine out or misplaced it. It is a terrific magazine re 928's. There is also a feature on Bob Devore's monster 7 liter 928. I always thought this particular issue was the holy grail for 928 enthusiasts.

[Linderpat]

I think it will be more model specific than the general 16v vs 32 v. For instance, well preserved 78/79 models, an 86.5 model; 89GT, and any of the GTS cars will likely lead the value pack. I think all years are great, but to the collector world, I see those as the ones in the nearer term.

[neil30076]

Having a 81, 84 euro and 86 I have actually run a 0 - 60 test with a G-tech GPS recorder.
The 84 Euro ran around 6.1, and the 86 very close at around 6.2, the 81 is way back at around 7.5.

[Yellowb1rd]

Are all of your 928's manual, neil?

Also, for values, I believe that the 928 will become quite collectible in the years to come. I do NOT agree that they will NEVER be collectible, and that's not just because I like the 928. They were way ahead of their time when they were designed. So much, that even Jeremy Clarkson is impressed with them (and he is traditionally hard on 70's cars, or cars which were designed in the 70's). He test drove the GTS, and commented on how 'contemporary and modern' it was. I've included the youtube video below, but you can just do a search in youtube for 'Jeremy Clarkson Porsche 928" as well

Porsche 928 GTS review by Jeremy Clarkson (Good quality) - YouTube

When a car is ahead of its time, that's a recipe for the making of a collectible classic. I was reading one of Jay Leno's write-ups last night, and though I don't agree with EVERYTHING he says in that article, some of it is pretty good.

Jay Leno Predicts Future Collectible and Classic Cars - Popular Mechanics

and I quote in his article "Any car that was ahead of its time, or any car that had an interesting flaw--that's what collectors want...."

C'mon, guys. Who here in this forum doesn't agree that the 928 was WAY ahead of its time? As for interesting flaws... well, that's debatable, but it was SUPPOSED to replace the 911, and ended up kind of being the black sheep. And you don't think that the manual 'dogleg gearbox' is going to be collectible? Someday, views will change. I can think of several cars right now that were once considered worthless, and not worthy of 'collectible' status that are now commanding exceptionally high price tags. The only factor that is hard to predict is WHEN that will happen. Some are instantly collectible, some become so within a decade, and some take more than 30 years. The newest 928 is less than 20 years old, and that's when the 'collector clock' really starts.

Hold onto those original 928's, fellas. You might be surprised on how people will view them in a decade or so.

[harborman]

The 928 was way ahead of it's time!

[Plexus928]

Originally Posted by Pete R

The one in the best shape I think will dictate the value. A 928 isn't a collectable car now and never will be. These are 30 years old now and you can find them all over for short money. Sure there's small pockets of us guys that like them, but there's not enough of us.

agree, Any type car than be bought for parking meter money is not a "rare collectors item", It may have been ahead of it's time back then,running a bit behind these days.
Perhaps in another 50 years. I won't live that long, and I suspect my mods just might exclude it from any collectors want list.

[Yellowb1rd]

Originally Posted by Plexus928

agree, Any type car than be bought for parking meter money is not a "rare collectors item", It may have been ahead of it's time back then,running a bit behind these days.
Perhaps in another 50 years. I won't live that long, and I suspect my mods just might exclude it from any collectors want list.

yeah, and no one will ever need more than 640K of RAM... LOL!

I'm really not going to mind telling you how wrong you are Plexus and PeteR when these cars become collectable, but then again, if you still own one, you probably won't be too upset about it. It also won't take 50 years. You have no idea how many times I've heard folks say similar things about other topics only to be completely wrong.

[Pete R]

Originally Posted by Yellowb1rd

yeah, and no one will ever need more than 640K of RAM... LOL!

I'm really not going to mind telling you how wrong you are Plexus and PeteR when these cars become collectable, but then again, if you still own one, you probably won't be too upset about it. It also won't take 50 years. You have no idea how many times I've heard folks say similar things about other topics only to be completely wrong.

I hope you can tell us we are wrong. The old gullwing Mercedes and race Ferrari's were once disposable too

[turborat]

Hagerty shows slight up tick in value for 2013. Flat values for past 6+ years.