another pca classification query
 

ok, so i have a longhood w/ an sc motor. i may be lighter but adding weight is easy. now for the hard part....

regardless what "letter group" i fall into, i would like to be on track w/ sc's and carreras. not gt as i was placed.

to run w/ an sc motor, i was told the rules also require me to LOOK like an sc car. so, can i just slap on a one-piece or maybe an assortment of fiberglass replacement panels for sc's ON TOP OF my existing bodywork? i think replacing metal w/ glass is not allowed (until gt class levels) but how about ADDING glass pieces? they would be obviously safely secured in place... i just don't think it makes sense to put on/remove fenders/hood just for races.

any ideas?

As I understand the rules you'd have to hack up your car pretty good; SC flares, later front fenders, short hood. Just the opposite of a backdate. It would be better to find an SC I think.

yeah, i'm not interested in butchering a perfectly good longhood, but can i just attach it on top of my existing bodywork, like a toupe? :D

i'm thinking something along this, just w/ sc not 930 flares:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=307805

After reading the rules, I'd say no. The rules seem pretty specific about the car being 'identical' to the car you are creating, thus SC steel flairs, later front fenders (metal). I don't know why they couldn't let you run with the narrow body and 3.0 as long as you make weight but it seems not.

You should keep the car the way it is and move up within the stock classes as a prepared car. There is no reason you should be in GT if your engine is a stock 3.0 liter and the rest of your car is stock too.

Rather than spend time and money with a kludgy solution, I'd invest in talking with the race scruits and other officials, or look around for others who have done this.

I have certainly seen early cars prepared for G and F classes, I'm sure some have been via engine.

Dave, any thoughts about selling the 3.0L and building a fresh 2.4L to get you back into a stock class?

Good luck with that one bro http://deephousepage.com/smilies/laugh2.gif ...you know how strict they are in Potomac, and from what I hear PCA national scruts are even more picky!

If it was that easy, we can just slap some clay or paper mache onto the long hood for the faux SC racer. :D

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/laugh2.gif
It's going to take a little more than that to get back to stock class.

How about RS flares in the back, build a 'rs 2.7' engine, and run it in D or E class?

Pari, those parts can easily be lifted by GhettoFab Racing, right? :D

hahaha....I don't know if I want to go down that path....I already entertained the thought of trading all of my SC parts for Dave's blingy go fast parts.....but in the end I will be classless like Dave. I'm just going to stick with what I got, a perfect candidate for G stock. :)

this is the most 'sound' reason i've heard for flaring the car. believe me, i hear a version of this suggestion from all around me ;)

sadly, it's that "building a 2.7rs spec motor" part that comes up as being costly. funny though, b/c i'd actually make MORE power than i do now w/ the sc, and yet i could then run w/ the slower cars :rolleyes: go figure....

Not sure how costly it would be. Certainly less than rebody of the car. You don't need an actual RS engine, as I recall RS compression was fairly low. And if you don't want to go with mfi, I think carbs would be allowed as a prepared mod (but I would need to check that.

Bottom line is with the early cars, to stay in stock classes, you would need a 2.4 or 2.7 engine. Do you still have the 2.4? I used to have fun with my '71 in 'H' class.

Dave, I agree with the poster above.

The competitive limitation of "straight-body" longhoods is not power, it's tire size. A longhood 911S has less torque than an SC and the max tire size is 225, compared to 245/275 for the SC.

Therefore, if you want to campaign an unflared longhood, the place to do it is in H-Stock. That would mean a 2,4 E motor, which would have plenty of torque.

Once you flare, you can do the whole RS touring/Lightweight thing, but that bumps you up a couple classes, where you are competing with 964's.

Advice: don't cut the longhood: build a 2.4 MFI E, reinstall S brakes. . . and then never hit them.

LOL, well that's just what my biggest peeve is john, "the competitive limitation".

my car has become essentially an sc w/ LESS tire. i think my ideal competitor would also be an sc. making them weigh equal is easy (though if he has more tire than maybe not even necessary.) i'm willing to 'spot them' the tire patch if they're willing to spot me sc horsepower :D

problem is that i don't and can't spend more money building yet another motor (i'm in the final stages of a 3.2ss for the car) and it's just not this car's raison d'etre. it's a fun car that has aspirations of being entered into an occasional race, but it's really not a race car. it's my daily driver.

by now it's just my complaints falling on deaf ears, but i'd really like a venue where my car could race against sc's and carreras and unfortunately i have to look elsewhere instead of pca to get that.

Dave, I hear you. PCA's orientation in the stock classes is either all-out GT or "showroom" stock, which is easier to police because the car's either an exact duplicate of original (minus the free items and a limited number of carveouts) or only a couple items (tub, engine case, gearbox case and engine displacement) to police. Once you begin to allow mixing and matching of engines it makes it harder to enforce, and the PCA rules are elegantly simple and powerful at the same time.

The real problem is, you don't live in Southern California, right? :)

if you are thinking POC and their points system then yes. i do not get that option. though i believe nasa is introducing a series just like the poc that i may be able to get into.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Porsche-Racing-Challenge.pdf

the 911 spec class looks promising though i'd have to downgrade my suspension a bit. at least it starts classifying by engine displacement. changing shocks is much easier than swapping motors :D

and yes, i agree w/ your comments regarding the reason pca's rules are set up certain way, just wish they added some kind of a "catchall" category. call it "bastard class" or "B-Spec" for short ;)

Build an ITS car, run the MARRS series. Just don't tell anyone about the 3 litre.:D SmileWavy

You don't need to change to a short hood, there are guys running '73 era cars as 2.7 911s (1977 era). Those are ringer cars in H.

Just make the mechanical specs the same as an SC, and you can run in G. You will need a stock SC engine, SC tranny, rear flares, and a LOT of ballast. But it can be done. Also best to update to SC alum trailing arms especially if one of yours is already bent.

Mike is right and he has been at for awhile. I have an H car (2.7S CIS) and it can embarrass quite a few G cars and some F cars but the limitation is tires. With a 7:31 915 and 3.0SC (US spec presumably) you would be classed an F car that does not have enough rubber to be competitive. On certain tracks that are not HP dependent, you might be a force or perhaps in the rain, otherwise you will be consistently spanked by good F Euro SC drivers (and some waterpumpers) and racing against inept G & F drivers. Ask me how I know.

LOL, i'm beginning to feel like you brought x-mas to me a few months early. when the other side of the coin is dealing w/ factory cup cars, getting spanked by F drivers doesn't sound so bad, even if i will lack the rubber! ;)

i've been told that it's not just the mechanicals (meaning brakes etc.) that would be keeping me out of that class but rather lacking the complete sc 'look'. if that's not really required, or maybe just not adhered to, then i'm definitely game. guess i have to look into it some more now.

(now where did i put my ex-subaru "pray for rain" racing bumper sticker ;) )

You can get the final word on this stuff from Donna Amico at PCA.

http://www.pca.org/clubrace/contacts.htm

Save any emails that she sends to you and bring them to tech in case there are questions.

Jeff

Yeah, Donna can separate the fact from the fiction. And she's local (Potomac).

I gotta see this "pray for rain" bumper sticker, Dave. :)

Mike is definitely on to something, but I would be double-secret-certain that the local scruitineers will approve that combination.

For example, Dick Strahota from CVR, a true gentleman racer, runs a 73 911 with a 74 911 (not S) 2,7 engine, at the weight of a '74 911, which is ordinarily classed in I-stock, and then has RS-type flares and a host of prepared goodies to run in H. He's an ouststanding driver and has many podiums to his credit with that car.

But before you go down that road, be absolutely certain the local scrutineers are OK with the combo. Many older cars are "grandfathered" into the class and PCA has been cracking down on the "exact duplicate in all regards" because they don't want people building a car for a particular class.

But what do I know? I have 1971 Karmann-bodied T with an E engine built on a T case. . .

yep... it's definitely something to think about and look into some more. thanks for the suggestions guys. help, actually ;)

i understand that it would be a nightmare to enforce peoples' gear ratios, displ., compression and a bunch of other wild stuff. esp if a lot of people started doing it. what i want is to actually give up some performance, such as flares/rubber to an SC, but otherwise "be" like an SC. i'll have to figure out a decent "persuasive presentation package" and see how it's received.

running in F would be ideal.