another pca classification query

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

ok, so i have a longhood w/ an sc motor. i may be lighter but adding weight is easy. now for the hard part....

regardless what "letter group" i fall into, i would like to be on track w/ sc's and carreras. not gt as i was placed.

to run w/ an sc motor, i was told the rules also require me to LOOK like an sc car. so, can i just slap on a one-piece or maybe an assortment of fiberglass replacement panels for sc's ON TOP OF my existing bodywork? i think replacing metal w/ glass is not allowed (until gt class levels) but how about ADDING glass pieces? they would be obviously safely secured in place... i just don't think it makes sense to put on/remove fenders/hood just for races.

any ideas?

DaveE · 10-12-2006, 01:17 PM

As I understand the rules you'd have to hack up your car pretty good; SC flares, later front fenders, short hood. Just the opposite of a backdate. It would be better to find an SC I think.

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

yeah, i'm not interested in butchering a perfectly good longhood, but can i just attach it on top of my existing bodywork, like a toupe?

i'm thinking something along this, just w/ sc not 930 flares:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=307805

DaveE · 10-13-2006, 12:32 PM

After reading the rules, I'd say no. The rules seem pretty specific about the car being 'identical' to the car you are creating, thus SC steel flairs, later front fenders (metal). I don't know why they couldn't let you run with the narrow body and 3.0 as long as you make weight but it seems not.

mark_d_mcguire · 10-16-2006, 06:30 AM

You should keep the car the way it is and move up within the stock classes as a prepared car. There is no reason you should be in GT if your engine is a stock 3.0 liter and the rest of your car is stock too.

Rather than spend time and money with a kludgy solution, I'd invest in talking with the race scruits and other officials, or look around for others who have done this.

I have certainly seen early cars prepared for G and F classes, I'm sure some have been via engine.

Jim Richards · 10-16-2006, 06:34 AM

Dave, any thoughts about selling the 3.0L and building a fresh 2.4L to get you back into a stock class?

Par911 · 10-16-2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by }{arlequin
yeah, i'm not interested in butchering a perfectly good longhood, but can i just attach it on top of my existing bodywork, like a toupe?

i'm thinking something along this, just w/ sc not 930 flares:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=307805

Good luck with that one bro

...you know how strict they are in Potomac, and from what I hear PCA national scruts are even more picky!

If it was that easy, we can just slap some clay or paper mache onto the long hood for the faux SC racer.

Par911 · 10-16-2006, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Dave, any thoughts about selling the 3.0L and building a fresh 2.4L to get you back into a stock class?

It's going to take a little more than that to get back to stock class.

dad911 · 10-16-2006, 06:45 AM

How about RS flares in the back, build a 'rs 2.7' engine, and run it in D or E class?

Jim Richards · 10-16-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Par911

It's going to take a little more than that to get back to stock class.

Pari, those parts can easily be lifted by GhettoFab Racing, right?

Par911 · 10-16-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Pari, those parts can easily be lifted by GhettoFab Racing, right?

hahaha....I don't know if I want to go down that path....I already entertained the thought of trading all of my SC parts for Dave's blingy go fast parts.....but in the end I will be classless like Dave. I'm just going to stick with what I got, a perfect candidate for G stock.

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dad911
How about RS flares in the back, build a 'rs 2.7' engine, and run it in D or E class?

this is the most 'sound' reason i've heard for flaring the car. believe me, i hear a version of this suggestion from all around me

sadly, it's that "building a 2.7rs spec motor" part that comes up as being costly. funny though, b/c i'd actually make MORE power than i do now w/ the sc, and yet i could then run w/ the slower cars

go figure....

dad911 · 10-16-2006, 03:07 PM

Not sure how costly it would be. Certainly less than rebody of the car. You don't need an actual RS engine, as I recall RS compression was fairly low. And if you don't want to go with mfi, I think carbs would be allowed as a prepared mod (but I would need to check that.

Bottom line is with the early cars, to stay in stock classes, you would need a 2.4 or 2.7 engine. Do you still have the 2.4? I used to have fun with my '71 in 'H' class.

304065 · 10-18-2006, 08:06 AM

Dave, I agree with the poster above.

The competitive limitation of "straight-body" longhoods is not power, it's tire size. A longhood 911S has less torque than an SC and the max tire size is 225, compared to 245/275 for the SC.

Therefore, if you want to campaign an unflared longhood, the place to do it is in H-Stock. That would mean a 2,4 E motor, which would have plenty of torque.

Once you flare, you can do the whole RS touring/Lightweight thing, but that bumps you up a couple classes, where you are competing with 964's.

Advice: don't cut the longhood: build a 2.4 MFI E, reinstall S brakes. . . and then never hit them.

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

LOL, well that's just what my biggest peeve is john, "the competitive limitation".

my car has become essentially an sc w/ LESS tire. i think my ideal competitor would also be an sc. making them weigh equal is easy (though if he has more tire than maybe not even necessary.) i'm willing to 'spot them' the tire patch if they're willing to spot me sc horsepower

problem is that i don't and can't spend more money building yet another motor (i'm in the final stages of a 3.2ss for the car) and it's just not this car's raison d'etre. it's a fun car that has aspirations of being entered into an occasional race, but it's really not a race car. it's my daily driver.

by now it's just my complaints falling on deaf ears, but i'd really like a venue where my car could race against sc's and carreras and unfortunately i have to look elsewhere instead of pca to get that.

304065 · 10-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Dave, I hear you. PCA's orientation in the stock classes is either all-out GT or "showroom" stock, which is easier to police because the car's either an exact duplicate of original (minus the free items and a limited number of carveouts) or only a couple items (tub, engine case, gearbox case and engine displacement) to police. Once you begin to allow mixing and matching of engines it makes it harder to enforce, and the PCA rules are elegantly simple and powerful at the same time.

The real problem is, you don't live in Southern California, right?

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by john_cramer

The real problem is, you don't live in Southern California, right?

if you are thinking POC and their points system then yes. i do not get that option. though i believe nasa is introducing a series just like the poc that i may be able to get into.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Porsche-Racing-Challenge.pdf

the 911 spec class looks promising though i'd have to downgrade my suspension a bit. at least it starts classifying by engine displacement. changing shocks is much easier than swapping motors

and yes, i agree w/ your comments regarding the reason pca's rules are set up certain way, just wish they added some kind of a "catchall" category. call it "bastard class" or "B-Spec" for short

DaveE · 10-18-2006, 02:32 PM

Build an ITS car, run the MARRS series. Just don't tell anyone about the 3 litre.

analogmike · analogmike's Garage

You don't need to change to a short hood, there are guys running '73 era cars as 2.7 911s (1977 era). Those are ringer cars in H.

Just make the mechanical specs the same as an SC, and you can run in G. You will need a stock SC engine, SC tranny, rear flares, and a LOT of ballast. But it can be done. Also best to update to SC alum trailing arms especially if one of yours is already bent.

zotman72 · 10-18-2006, 08:28 PM

Mike is right and he has been at for awhile. I have an H car (2.7S CIS) and it can embarrass quite a few G cars and some F cars but the limitation is tires. With a 7:31 915 and 3.0SC (US spec presumably) you would be classed an F car that does not have enough rubber to be competitive. On certain tracks that are not HP dependent, you might be a force or perhaps in the rain, otherwise you will be consistently spanked by good F Euro SC drivers (and some waterpumpers) and racing against inept G & F drivers. Ask me how I know.