Need Budget for Roll Cage in Southern California

[WantToRace]

Need Budget price for a Roll Cage
New to the forum. I'm the new owner of an 86 Carrera that I'd like to take to the track someday. Before doing so I'm putting a budget together for the various things I need to get in order to track the car.

From our host and other places its pretty east to estimate the cost of safety gear (helmets, etc..) the one item I'm trying to guesstimate is the cost to install a roll cage.

I'm in SoCal, any idea on what I should budget for a roll cage? Any opinion on who to go to for a price for a cage?

Anyone that I should avoid?

Thanks in advance

[hpaull]

I don't know how useful I will be, but I will give my insight. The first thing that is useful to know is what is your experience level? From there what are your goals? Then budget and things start to come into play.

Since I don't know your situation I will go a bit into what I have done and some costs and things. I started doing track days once I got my license. I was fortunate enough to be able to drive my mom's car when I got my license it was a little 4 cyl z3 and the cheapest car for me to be insured on at the time that my parents owned. I probably did about 20 track days and modified and fixed the car as I needed to. Then I graduated highschool and plans fell apart for my appointment to USAFA. So I started working and going to school.

Working afforded me enough money to get into kart racing at the local level. Then during my second race my congressman called me and I finally got into USAFA after 3 attempts. So the karts were sold off. And I had about a 3 year hiatus.

Then call it dumb luck I came across my current car 87 911. I started doing track days again my senior year at USAFA and fixing the car and such as needed. About 6 months ago I went off track at HPR and that is when I finally said it's time to go wheel to wheel. I set out a budget of 15,000 to get the car race ready. While it is still tagged it is not something I would want to drive on the street with a full cage, no interior, the suspension and brakes.

First off a cage with no helmet is not the safest thing to be in on public roads. Second it is loud inside the cabin, so loud that when I do take it out to get all the fluids and stuff up to temperature I need to at least have some hearing protection. Third the suspension in the car is pretty much all new and the roads out in oklahoma are not the best last thing I want to do is screw up my alignment and corner balance. Lastly the brakes race brakes work best at temperature. While you can change pads out I find it a pain because it usually means pads and rotors so you don't mess up a set of rotors that are bedded for a set of pads etc.

It has been fun and quite the learning experience converting the car into a prepared race car. Budgets get blown and you hit things along the way, especially in an older car, that are mission critical to fix, that you wouldn't have thought you would have to.

Then work out a budget. For me, I really wanted to get into formula mazda, but the budget was not there, and prepping the Porsche was the economic solution. But there are a lot of things you forget or don't think about for the budget.

I would say if you don't have a lot of experience hit some HPDE's they are a great time and if the bug really hits you you will want to go wheel to wheel even sooner. Right now I am saving for skip barber because I really want to do that, for the learning experience. Another thing you can do if you really want to look into a race car is find someone who rents them out for a weekend. A lot of options to look into. this is an area where a good plan will save you a lot of money and headache. Plus there are plenty of people out there who will talk to you and help out. Where you live can have a huge impact on what you might want to race, the SCCA isint the most kind sanctioning body to the 911. PCA racing might not be your style. NASA may blow the budget before you know it etc.


Another option would be buying a used race car that is ready to go, will save a lot of money. Also Safety gear for yourself will cost quite a bit. Helmet, hans, firesuit, underwear, shoes gloves are easily 2000 dollars and up and that is not for the top dollar stuff either. I would not suggest buying used safety gear either, but it'll be your own ass on the line.

Right now the 911 is almost done. I wont be able to do the first few races out here in the organization I will be running in called COMMA. But I will still be able to get on track to shake the car down. I have probably put about 20,000 dollars into the 911 to get it where it is now. I do not have a lot of time to do a lot of my own work so I had to bite the bullet and pay a shop, another thing to consider.

Now for your original question about cage cost. My cage work was 2600 dollars. It is a nasa legal cage with extra gusseting and anti intrusion bars in the front. You could look at some of the better bolt in cages as they will make you legal, but it comes down to how safe you want your car. For me there is a lot of tax dollar money going into my training and the last thing I want to do is shunt the car and have an injury that makes me a liability.

Any other questions about costs or anything I can try to answer. It is a lot to think about and can seem overwhelming if you go in unprepared.

good luck! and I hope this can be of some help?

[racer]

You can buy rollcages (like Autopower or Safety Devices) or you could have a custom cage.

Also, need to consult the rule book about what the cage must be
1) Comliance for the club(s) you plan to run with. Its possible that SCCA and PCA have slightly different rules. Make sure you build something that can be used with whomever you run with
2) Material (steel, alloy etc)
2) wall thickness (based on material used and weight of car)
3) door bars (nascar bars) or not
4) rear cross bars ( "X" )
5) Paint/powdercoating

All of these can have an impact on cost. Delivering a car that is devoid of interior or will the shop need to remove your seats/dash etc. (in essence, the amount of prep work you do will lower your cost).

Example for a "off the shelf" cage: Roll Cage Kit,911 Coupe up to 1989-Stable Energies

[euro911sc]

I'll take a guess and say you have never been on track before... you don't need a cage. Join your local PCA and go to their High Speed Drivers Education (HPDE) events. I have been running HPDE for 10 years and still no need for a cage. If you are seriously concerned you could look into several of the well made bolt in Roll Bars. Very quality products that are removable with almost no evidence left in the car.

As a beginner, just go try it out! Who knows... you may not like it Or you'll be stricken like the rest of us here... forever doomed to a life of waiting for the next track day! All you need to go to HPDE is a helmet and a fire extinguisher. Very small investment that you can liquidate if you find it is not for you. Though I would also recommend reading Skip Barbers "Going Faster" before you get there just so you can make the most out of what the instructor is teaching you.

Now, all that said, if you are really going racing you need a cage. You have to research or pay for knowledge on how the cage should be built just like Racer states above. Also, once you properly cage the car it will lose value to most buyers and you have shrunk the market down to track junkies for buyers.

In S. CA you will find a ton of help and great people. Pick their brains. You might even get one of them to give you a ride in some hot laps so you can see what fun it is

Just some thoughts

-Michael

P.S. My local cage costs for good custom welded in cages run 1750-3000 depending on various options and material. If you can wait, try and time it when steel prices are low

[Evan Fullerton]

Lucas Fab in Huntington Beach through Hergesheimer Motorsports did mine to my design and I couldn't be happier with it. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-autocross-track-racing/633095-new-911-track-toy-build.html

Mine was ~$6k but I went over the top with it. If I had stayed inside of the firewalls, it would have been about half that and mig vs. more time consuming tig and mild steel vs. 4130 would have brought it down even further.

[Pete R]

Originally Posted by euro911sc

P.S. My local cage costs for good custom welded in cages run 1750-3000 depending on various options and material. If you can wait, try and time it when steel prices are low

Steel prices are low and relatively stable. Size of tubing will effect price but there isn't much of anything to be gained in steel price changes...it never really goes back down anyhow. The material cost in a cage is very small relative to the overall cost.

[Cory M]

Typical cost for a custom welded cage in SoCal is around $2500++

[mmagus]

Lots of great advice given so far! The route I chose to go with my car was first to just drive it as is. For Autocross, DE's (driver's Education), Performance Driving Schools, even some Time Trialing a cage or roll bar is not required. Once you get your feet wet you can decide just how far into things you want to continue to go. The next step for me was a Race Version Roll bar, I got it used for $200. It is bolt in and has the ability to be upgraded later to a full cage.

You will find lots of links at our site, including rules, event dates, car classification tools, forums, etc. I hope to see you at an event soon! In fact, how about the March 17 Autocross?


All the Best,
Mark
PCA SDR AX Chair

Porsche Club of America | San Diego Region

[PatrickB]

For taking to the track "someday?"

A roll cage is ridiculously over the top, and unnecessary, and immediately changes your street car to a track only car. The cost of a roll bar increases your level of safety, but again, maybe a bit much for AX, and especially for your first few days of HPDE, if this is your first time tracking?

I went with a bolt in DAS bar after my first season of HPDE, and POC's Performance Driving Series. My bar was a direct bolt in, and took about 30 minutes to install, after I removed both seats. Cost with shipping (across country) was around $1400, of which $500 was for shipping. This bar could also have been welded in. Welding is a much better way of securing the installation, but obviously much more permanent. For you though, unbolting and removal is a much easier process if you decide you don't wish to slide down the slippery slope!

I know that Dave @ TRE in SoCal, also makes a bolt in setup that is very high quality.

Ready for some instruction? Come join me at Porsche Owner's Club (POC) Performance Driver's Series Driver's Clinic #1 next weekend! We still have a few spots open, if you're interested!

http://www.porscheclub.com/events/EventCalendar/SE154-Info.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-autocross-track-racing/656167-porsche-owners-club-pds-clinic.html

[Cory M]

+1 on the POC

If you just want a rollbar Autopower in San Diego makes and sells a bolt-in "Race" rollbar for under $550. They also make weld-in and bolt-in cage kits but the fit and design doesn't compare to a quality custom cage.

here's some info at IO Port's site, Autopower sells direct too for the same prices so you don't have to ship:

IO Port Racing Supplies: 911, 912, 930, 964 1963 - 1993

[campbellcj]

I echo the advice above to first get your feet wet with your current car in a DE or school format without major mods to the car. Then, if you like it and decide to get "serious", your next decision will be to either turn your car into a dual-purpose street/track car (bolt-in roll hoop probably the way to go), do a full race build (and buy a trailer and tow rig), or buy somebody else's finished or nearly-finished race car for 25-50 cents on the dollar.

Especially in today's market, the economics of doing a full race build on a mostly stock street car just do not make sense unless there are special circumstances i.e. you work for a shop like Eric and Evan or have a LOT of time and skill to DIY virtually everything at home. I'm not really one to preach as I did not follow this advice myself with my current car, although I did/do some of the work myself and started down this road 10 years ago.

+1 on the POC as well. Great folks, top-notch instruction and very well-orchestrated events.

To get back to your original question -- if you want a full welded cage I'd talk to Lucas Fab in Orange County or TC Design Fab in the Bay area.

[cstreit]

Low end - $300/point. High end - $500/point.