Attn: Cayenne & Targa Haters .....
 

Soon, you may be able to get twice the hate packaged all in one vehicle!!! :D

http://www.stern.de/sport-motor/autowelt/erlkoenige/porsche/index.html?id=504847&nv=fs&cp=1

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1063673669.jpg

Oh wow...how absolutely (un) COOL My prediction? They'll sell like hotcakes. Just not to me. Curt, hate to tell you this...but I went on a PCA winery tour last weekend. The Cayenne Turbo that was there has me sending off cards & letters, offering my car for sale. Not the Cayenne as much as all those who drove the newer cars. PCA sure isn't what it used to be. I'm done. Apologies to Orwell, but with such wonderous creations out there? It's time for this dinosaur to hit the boneyard. First, I'll take a dime or two to the bank. ;) Then...I'm outahere!

:rolleyes:

oh wait! did I say that out loud?

The first turbo targa since 1989? Love it, absolutely love it, now I gotta figure out how long it'll take me to make 90 grand working 15 hours a week at 7/hour.......awww ****, life's over. =)

Paul,

I have heard you recently say more than once recently that you are ready to sell your car because the new Porsche owners make you sick. Just wondering... but why are you so concerned about the new Porsche owners that you would sell your car? Who cares about them? Will the financial reward of selling your car ever overcome the regret?

Well, in its defense, the Targa treatment doesn't ruin the lines of the B, C, or D pillars, such that they are. The 'Audi Station Wagon' lines are unbroken. :rolleyes:

I think that most of us can agree that Porsche had great focus during the '70s and 80's, and produced really what are the world's best sportscars during that time.

These days? Well, lets just say the glory has faded a little.

I wondered why, so I broke out my 1978 Porsche brochure that came with my SC to get some insight.

Lo and behold, the answer was right there, on the first page!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1063683197.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1063683238.jpg

Although some things haven't changed. The Cayenne does still "speak of its owners style and taste." Particularly the one I saw today outfitted with "Khrome dubs."

I'd also like to submit to Porsche a revision of the '78 brochure:

"Porsche is no longer respected in the sports car world because they have focused all of their efforts on building a station wagon to take advantage of the tail end of a silly trend. For almost fifty years, the cars they've chosen to produce themselves and identify with the Porsche name has been sports cars. But now for attempted short term financial gain, they have decided to produce a VW station wagon to sell to soccer moms and other rich people who have no real interest in automobiles. By no longer concentrating on what they at one time knew best and at one time loved most, the Porsche product planners and accountants have ensured that Porsche will no longer be the world's largest independent makers of sports cars."

Paul,

Didn't you write not too long ago that you would send your car to the crusher before you would sell it? Just curious.

Yeah... because your average new 996/Boxster owner is a car addict and not some image conscious yuppie, right :rolleyes:.

Case in point - I was at Home Depot yesterday and a guy pulls in the space next to me and gets out of his Boxster S. No badge on the trunk. I say "Nice car. Its an 'S' right" while pointing to the red calipers. "No - its a Porsche" was the answer. Sigh...

Not to worry guys - Porsche are having "rigidity" problems with the chassis of this Cayenne Targa prototype - sound familiar? - so it's far from production. :)

And for those interested in real information on the Pepper, this is the place to go:

http://forums1.roadfly.org/porsche/forums/cayenne/

-- Curt

I saw a VW Touareg for the first time yesterday. Does it's introduction into the US mean that we can call it and the Cayenne "VoPo's"?

Doom on you...Doom on you...Doom on you...:(
Lighten up Francis.;)

only making what they make best......

Hmmm, Sounds like Isuzu when they failed miserably in the US car market. Then come out saying all they make are trucks. Like they make them that much better.


"...twice the hate packaged all in one vehicle.."

ROFL

Here's a quote from this months Pano from Hans-Peter Porsche...

"The spirit of our products is that they don't blindly follow short term fashion trends-they seamlessly fit into the timeless, classic forms of their historic predecessors."

no, I didn't make that up.

Some other random thoughts...

One local Porsche dealer, Don Rosen, is advertising "30 Cayennes in stock, all on sale!" this week.

"Independent Porsche" is BS. Cayenne Platforms and Boxster transmissions are already shared with VW/Audi, right? At least if VAG bought Porsche they'd have cash to race. Ferrari still makes some nice cars, :-) and they compete at the top of motorsports.

My prediction on when Porsche will return to racing...when they have pi$$ed away all their reputation and goodwill, the Cayenne is dead, the new factory sold off and they're back to selling a few thousand cars a year. Then they will see the value in racing.

Now that I think about it, who cares. I'm not their target market anyway.

Please don't use the word "Cayenne" in the same paragraph as "Targa."

You know, I have to admit I'm a little baffled by this "Hate the Cayenne" thesis... Let me tell you why.

My first Porsche was a 1974 911. I loved that car. Shouldn't have sold it, but there were some tech issues that were beyond my talent, and this was pre-internet... It was much easier to buy a different car than to fix it.

I replaced it with an '87 924S. Great car, I don't care what anyone says. I could throttle steer, got about 26 MPG, and it never let me down. Not once.

I sold it for a new Corvette. I couldn't afford the Boxster, but got a great deal on the Vette. I loved how the Vette handled, and loved all the power, but I couldn't tolerate the attitudes of several of the dealers I took it to for service. Why dealers? Warrantee work. So... I traded it in on an eight year old 911 Targa. Should have never sold that one either, but where do you put a Saint Bernard in a 911? I had two Saints, and wouldn't give them up for anything... After trying for a while, I realized two cars were not an option, so...

For me, an SUV was the answer. Plenty of room for the dogs and anything else I needed to carry. I saved money along the way, so I could buy another 74, this one a Carrera Targa. The Land Rover I had as a puppy mover? It now has over 200,000 miles on it... and it's getting just a little tired. Time to replace it.

What do I replace it with? Hmmm... Let's see. I need something that I can put two very large dogs in. Even if I didn't cart them everywhere with me, you still need to get them to the vet. Also, there's the flatbed trailer, which has been really convenient to move cars around on as part of the car hobby... Then there's the horse trailer... And all the sails for the boat. Yes, another truck or SUV is about the only thing that will answer the mail, unless I can find a perfectly mint 57 Chevy Nomad, or a 68 Olds Vista Cruiser with a Rocket 455.

So: I need to tow at least 3,500 pounds, preferrably 5,500. I need to have a lot of interior room, which rules out most pick-ups. Lower than average ride height is also a good idea, because it's difficult for an older Saint to jump over three feet (by ride height, I don't mean ground to lowest chassis part, I mean ground to lift gate/tail gate height) and it's more than a little exercise to lift a 180 pound dog. I also don't want excessively wide, because I'm used to driving a small car, and the first time I got in a Chevy Tahoe, I thought I was taking up two lanes... so what does that leave me with?

I could get another Land Rover... but I can't say I like what Ford has done.

A pickup doesn't meet the interior requirements, though a fifth wheel is a good way to tow a horse.

Audi all road? Maybe, but $42K?
Volvo XC?
Tuareg?

You know... a Porsche SUV would give me everything I need, and give me a manufacturer that I understand and can work with... I can't afford a new one... maybe in three to five years, there'll be some used ones out there. How much was that V-6 model going to sell for?

You guys are gonna riot when PAG introduces its new electric hybrid...

Todsimpson, ok, ok, you've made your point! jeez :D

Oh man, this one kills me. You should have keyed an "S" logo onto his rear decklid after he walked away.

I think everyone should do a title search on their 911. Find out who exactly bought it new, for instance. I'll bet a high, high percentage were 'non-enthusiast' doctors, attorneys, etc. who didn't know a T from an S except for the price tag. New Porsches were big coin then, and are big coin today. Not much has changed in that regard.

The Gray Wolf was an exception - purchased by a college professor who made OK money. He told me it was a major struggle to make the downpayment and monthly strokes, but he HAD to have one. If he had been a wealthy non-enthusiast gynecologist, I think I'd enjoy my car just the same. ;) -- Curt

I'm with you Don.

I have a '99 LR Discovery II, when it's time to replace it I will seriously consider the Cayenne for many of the same reasons you mentioned. Towing, dog and off road are highest for me and can run in PCA events with it.

'non-enthusiast' drivers aka yuppies are an important component in the Pooschey food chain. They buy the cars new, never stress them, maintain them at the Dealer, and keep the wax bright until a new fad comes along. These cars are then available at much lower prices to people who will appreciate them for what they are -- namely, us.

You know... a Porsche SUV would give me everything I need, and give me a manufacturer that I understand and can work with... I can't afford a new one... maybe in three to five years, there'll be some used ones out there. How much was that V-6 model going to sell for?

Don

By all means buy one - I think many of the detractors on the Board (me very much included) dislike the dilution of the Porsche brand, the fact that instead of top level motorsport we get an SUV, and because by and large the target market is a bunch of soccor moms or their male equivalent who want an SUV because its "big and safe" and "I have such great visibility sitting up here".

It actually looks like you NEED an SUV. It might as well be a good one.

I guess the big difference is while enthusiasts may not have been able to afford new Porsches back then, we all still lusted after them. Had posters of them on our walls, read the magazine articles on them over and over, etc.

And, we promptly bought them as soon as they became price-available!

And, now we insanely dump tons of money into our now-practically-antique-911s to keep them on the road forever.

I think it will be a very different story with the Cayenne. I don't see a year 2025 version of "101 Projects for Your Cayenne" coming out in the future.

Good points Brian. Although I'm not so sure that teenage boys today aren't lusting after the Cayenne. SUV's are all they know. Most have Hummer posters on their walls - not sports cars. And they know all about the Cayenne. I asked my 14-year old daughter to ask the boys in her class if they knew of the Cayenne. They all did. One even brought in some kind of Cayenne magazine and knew all the specs, performance stats, etc. Maybe a sad commentary, maybe not .......

OTOH, I'm 45 and like to listen to Kid Rock sometimes :eek: -- Curt

Jack, come on now. There is NOTHING wrong with Audi Station Wagons! Seriously, this thing is a great car for daily driving and you can actually take it pretty far off road, I would rather have this over a pepper wagon all day long ~ yes I have driven both.

http://www.owners-gallery.com/upload...oad%203632.JPG

Unfortunately Audi is going to replace the allroad with an SUV so I am starting to seriously consider a pepper wagon for a replacement, but that is still a few years away. FWIW I like that Porsche has decided to follow the SUV trend. I mean look at what they have been able to do with the racing program since it was introduced!

There are "Targa Haters" out there? What the hell is there to hate? It's like hating sex outdoors!

and
What these guys said. Important points to remember in the next round of Boxster/996/Cayenne bashing. Next time you see some guy who doesn't even make eye contact when you flash your lights and has a cell phone surgically attached to his ear just say "Thanks" for taking the hit on depreciation and allowing you to buy his car for 1/3 of what he paid for it. Present company on the Boxster and 996 BBS excepted, of course ;).

Now, if we could just get some fender flares on that puppy, toss on a whale tail...

"1. There are "Targa Haters" out there? 2. What the hell is there to hate? 3. It's like hating sex outdoors!"

1. I hear there are. I only react with nausea and disgust, not hatred.
2. It is "butt-ugly" (according to numerous Rennlist posts. I agree but only when the top is on. It looks quite nice with the top off. There is also the flexy-flyer problem...
3. Biting insects, sand,...

You know, I've been thinking a little more about this, and it reminds me of a book I read when I was 16.

I don't remember the name of the book, but it was written in about 1967 or so, I think it was published by HP Books, and if I recall correctly, was subtitled something like "The incompetent American driver and how he got that way". It was definitely an answer to another book, written by of all things a lawyer who hadn't had a driver's license since the 1940s and subtitled his book "The designed in dangers of the American Automobile". Come to think of it, if that car was unsafe at any speed, why am I not dead yet? But I digress.

In any case... there was a line in that book that seared itself into my memory... twenty years later, I can still quote it:

"It is not Detroit's job to educate the stupid, it is their job to fulfill the ill-conceived demands upon the marketplace..."

If a soccer mom wants an SUV instead of a minivan, of any make... who am I to judge. Do you think Bill Gates will be rallying that 959?

Big surprise... Porsche Cars AG is in business to make money. Who would have thought?

<i>"It is not Detroit's job to educate the stupid, it is there job to fulfill their ill-conceived demands upon the marketplace..." </i>

LOL! You need to post more often Don.

Randy: I know what you're saying, but I'm having a tough time calling this 'butt-ugly'. ;)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1063763444.jpg

The clor is beautiful! Is that gemini Blue? If I squint and push on the side of my eyeball, I can make it look like a coupe....

Got any pics with the roof out?

There is no arguing that this:

http://www.nosubstitute.org/images/homepage/911E.gif
Click for a full-size version.

- is about as beautiful as a 911 gets, and would be a blast to drive in nice weather.

Although I'd still like it just a little bit more, if it was a coupe.

The early Targa with the silver band is a classic! I still don't see how Chris parted with that car. It's beautiful.

I was a diehard Coupe guy for years but the Targa really grew on me. So much so that I'm selling my Coupe and the Targa will be my only P car. Ideally it would be great to keep both but it's too time consuming having two P cars for a DIY'er.

P.S. I have to admit I'm still not sold on the look with the top on.:)

Actually, I think that's the best part of the Cayenne's design.

It's the Carrera snout I can't get used to. ;)

But you don't buy an SUV for the way it looks, just like you don't buy a hammer for the way it looks. It's a tool. You get the SUV to haul stuff and pull stuff, and I suppose the Cayenne does this better than most.

Jack said:

"You get the SUV to haul stuff and pull stuff, and I suppose the Cayenne does this better than most."

Jack, I sense some softening re your Cayenne position! :)

Lots of room for the pups . . . and cupholders built in!

BTW, congrats on BB2; truly an amazing car. It embodies many qualities that I would like to have in my next project.

BR,

Kurt

I'm growing old, I suppose. ;)

Actually, my problem with the Cayenne isn't with the truck, per se. It's a great SUV, I'm sure. My problem has been with Porsche's decision to make a great SUV, and the associated brand dilution, resource dilution, racing energy dilution, etc.

But now it's here, so I'll get used to it.

And thanks for the compliment on BB2. But as I understand some of your thinking for your next project, it'll have at least twice the power and much more headroom -- a topless BB2 on steroids. :cool:

i still remember the day i was told porsche was gonna make an suv. oh how i laughed. what a funny joke. maybe ferarri will come out with one to compete with porsche. hahaha...then i read it in a magazine. NOOO! it can't be! why why why would porsche make an suv? seriously, come on. porsche makes sports cars, it would never never ever make an suv. *sigh*
the cayenne may be great, but to enthusiasts like me its just not right.