What V6 engine for 911?

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by Lukesportsman

There was a beautiful one done on here a few years back with really good engineering. I think it eventually sold for a big loss. It was a neat idea for a daily driver, but trouble/hp/cost ratio hard to figure over a 3.2 or LS depending on how ratio lends itself to your needs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/357151-putting-3-3-my-sc.html

I remember that one! Very cool. Even considered it when it went up for sale. Kinda curious about 4-cylinder conversions to save weight / fuel efficiency. But I like the flat six parallels.

[Flying Toaster]

I vaguely recall the grand national turbo 3.8 v6 being a swap option. IIRC, in stock form that motor put out 275hp...

[ritzman5]

renegadehybrids.com has kits for LS and small blk conversions and subie conversions. Im currently work for Ls conversion, I have not ruled our V6 yet just have not found motor yet that meets my criteria. i have a wrx it kicks ass but I want my 911 to be faster than wrx. right now subie kicks its butt.

[todd230]

Fords new 3.7L would be awesome. All aluminum, 7K RPM from factory, 300 HP, and 31 MPG in my son's mustang. They are fast and sound great. I have the same motor in my truck, great motor - smooth, quick, quite. Would need a good electrical person to do the swap.

Or an 3.5 L twin turbo ecoboost - 365HP 425ft lbs torque.

[Lapkritis]

Vr6 turbo... cheap, reliable, easy to work on... powerful.

[not_hans_stuck]

Both of those ar heavier, taller and more exepnsive to acquire and modify than an LS. And the conversion cost would be the same. LS still wins.

[Lukesportsman]

I can't say that the LSx doesnt win, but the 3.7 Ford and 3.6 Chevy engines are great and LIGHT. I think the 3.6 is listed at 375lbs with 300hp. Easier packaging in rear in regards to space/weight. Don't believe any of the FI engines are struggling with height. Have been researching these exact engines for an MGBGT swap. Thought the snappy lower torque nature might fit the character of it better than a torque monster. If your building a small tired car, you don't need a LSx engine.

[Lapkritis]

Ls engine is a great engine but if you're into keepin Germans speaking German then the VR6 with a turbo is the way to go. The generic American v6 engines are okay but you're a smidge away from driving a grand caravan or grand am.

[todd230]

While looking for the weight of the Duratec V6 I just read the V12 version of that technology (Duratec) is the basis for the Austin Martin line.. Not too shabby.

[not_hans_stuck]

The B may be different, but you're going to have a height problem with anything overhead valve in the P car. It's easy enough to get around that with a different choice of decklid and wing but the main thing is I wouldn't waste the money.

Essentially, since the bulk of the cost is in the conversion and not the engine, you're shorting yourself 100-150 horsepower. And "snappier nature of the torque" is just silly. LS engines can easily make twice as much torque as a VR6 or any of those other v6's. And it's torque that moves you.

The other thing people don't realize is that there is a huge difference between peak horsepower/peak torque and what I'll call area under the curve. A VR6 engine, in particular, is a great little motor. It spins great, sounds great and it's a smallish package. But go look at the horsepower and torque curves. An LS engine makes more horsepower and torque everywhere - from idle through redline. When you sum up all that horsepower, it's a LOT more powerful than the VW. And, you can feel that power everywhere - there's an immediacy these v8 cars have that you'll lose. It'll feel more laggy and lazier, like the flat 6 you took out of it.

And the LS engine weighs about 350lbs, too. I'm telling you, you guys don't realize how tiny the LS package is.

Here's a picture.



And, that LS engine has a deep sump oilpan on it. The one most people choose is 3" shorter.

Hal

[Lapkritis]

No offense but it is painfully clear you've never owned, driven or researched VR6 turbos. This mindset is exactly the type of driver I enjoy roasting in their "muscle" car out of the toll booths as they're completely clueless and unsuspecting.Stock vr6 with turbo handles ~600hp. Add pistons and rods and you're about 1000hp capable.

The LS is a great engine but not the easiest to work on and not the cheapest to modify for power. Right out of the box in stock trim it is superior to the VR6 when also in stock trim. BUT, cap your spending on engine and performance adders (non-refillables) at $6g and you have a 600hp vr6 and a mostly stock 400hp LS if you find a decent specimen that isn't beat to death already.

[Lapkritis]

...And if you want a Porsche VR6 they exist in the Cayenne.

Some education... love the street golf driving around the Camaro popping the wheelie out of the hole. That golf is stock block, big cams with the turbo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFj9d6N8bfg

[ej911]

There are all kinds of neat ideas for awesome engine conversions. Proven is always good and the LSx has been a proven conversion with parts readily available. If that does not float your boat, for the same hp as a 3.6 engine, the Suby has some great flat 6 engines that Porsche did the consulting for. The ez30r 3.0 liter 250hp. or the ez36d for closer to 260 with improved torque. Both the Suby flat 6 engines weigh 100-150lbs less than the 964 3.6 or the LSx engine.

If I had a 911 roller and could not afford to put a good Porsche flat 6 engine, I would go with the Suby for sure.

[Cannonball996]

I have always wanted to do a rotary engine in a 911.

[SteamWolf]

Originally Posted by Lukesportsman

With the "early" modern Maserati's being scrapped so cheaply, (I acknowledge the difficulty)but it would be humorous........

Ferrari powered Porsche

The V6 is why the early maseratis are scrapped so cheaply!! It'd be a rear engined failboat.

If people were desperate to fit a V6 into a Porsche, I'd go with the Mazda KLZ (and turbos), or the Honda or Suzuki engines (alloy, relatively light and good power) or the Mitsubishi 3.8L V6. Audi make a great V6 but they are expensive to maintain and aftermarket is minimal.

However, I'd never do it to a 911. Why would you? LS1 ticks all the boxes and then some, and would be cheaper to convert on account of the vast amount of aftermarket support.

Having said that, the perfect candidate for a V6 conversion would have to be the early boxster. LS1 doesn't fit, and Subaru engines sound like arse.

[ccreddell]

I realize Im late to the conversation, but I had a couple comments. The only reason I would put a V6 in a porsche is if I was building it for my 16 y/o daughter (she wishes) and didnt want her to kill herself or have to put up the stock flat 6. Not sure which would be worse. If I was looking for something in the 300hp class, with a little less torque so that the stock 915 stays alive, and 30+ mpg Id run a LSX 4.8. easy 300-350 hp, revs to 7 all day, and you dont have to baby the tranny. Oh, and the mileage would be so good you use it for your daily and your wife would approve. Not only that, but if you later did a widebody with 345s, and needed a bit more, you could build that same block up to 383 (6.2) fairly easily.

[Lukesportsman]

If you're looking at a turbo VR6, then why not in a 914 and run the VW transaxle and eliminate the more expensive P parts? I realize this is requiring a re-engineering of trailing links, but a 914 isn't stellar do to its sophisticated rear suspension but more in spite of it.

Yes I have a 914 conversion, so not ranting on it at all.

[A&F]

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

I remember that one! Very cool. Even considered it when it went up for sale. Kinda curious about 4-cylinder conversions to save weight / fuel efficiency. But I like the flat six parallels.

Unless the 4 is N/A it won't save fuel. Weight savings is also not that great. The current EZ30 is with in 50lbs of the EJ25's and makes 245hp.

The 3.3 is a relatively old design and would not be desirable for any swap today.

[lin7310948]

personally for my 930 i was leaning toward higher horsepower and went with a mast motorsports ls7 drive by wire motor. small, compact, and lightweight for 700 crank horsepower with 600 plus ft/lbs torque. and it makes horsepower throughout its rpm range...i never considered a 6 cylinder for the porsche. however, i have a v8 converted 63 austin-healey that i am considering converting to a v6. so i do find this discussion of considerable interest...

[AirJose]

Hello all,

Sorry to "hijack" or resurrect this conversation but almost 10 years has passed bye and now we have 300 hp, all aluminum GM V6. Cost will be cheaper for a good used low mileage engine. It should be less weight than a LS1. I have a 912 with the 901 5 speed so 300 hp should be my limit plus these engines are fairly reliable.
Has anyone has researched this or gave it some thought?