Slow Site...

[Mitch Leland]

I can't believe there's not more input on this site, nothing has moved here for weeks... I know there are lot of other sites devoted to engine swaps, but I thought we might get some going here...

Here's my 2003 C4S that I'm installing a Renegade Hybrid LS3/480HP crate engine. I've turned the C4 into a RWD car since I've installed a taller ring and pinion, they don't make a different ring and pinon for the front diff.

I'm closing in on the finishing touches. My last major challenges will be the electrical and I'm doing a different P/S from the standard Renegade install.

It's been a fun project, but not "plug and play", but doable with some direction from Renegade and some friends who are more talented than I am in welding and electrical.

[jadewombat]

Not mine, ridiculously impractical, but awesome none the less. Long before the turd-like Xb came out, there was the VW Fridolin.

Volksforum.com - Ruud's Fridolin Project

[itsnotanova]

I'm drooling over your car Mitch. Isn't there a Porsche show out by your area coming up?

[Mitch Leland]

it's not a nova,

Actually we have probably the biggest swap meet in the State of Texas coming up this weekend here in Fredericksburg, Lady Bird Park. Cars and vendors of every description.

Here's the coolest Nomad that attended the swap meet a couple of years ago...

[manbridge 74]

I was through F-burg last month.

Should've stopped by and checked out your build. Looks great.

[Mitch Leland]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

I was through F-burg last month.

Should've stopped by and checked out your build. Looks great.

Well next time you'll have to stop for a tour of the garage and a Shiner...

[Yan2947]

Mitch, which water pump adapter did you use? It looks like one that allows you to place your water pump on either side of the motor? Your install looks very clean and incredibly well done! We need some more photos?

Yan

[Mitch Leland]

Originally Posted by Yan2947

Mitch, which water pump adapter did you use? It looks like one that allows you to place your water pump on either side of the motor? Your install looks very clean and incredibly well done! We need some more photos?

Yan

I'm not sure I'm answering your question, I'm using the Renegade Meziere Electric water pump. It's mounted low the the radiator pipe system pulling the cool water from the left side radiator on my wide body car (I believe the narrow body cars have the cool water radiator outlet on the bottom of the passenger side). However in my case w/o any previous information I mounted the pump to accommodate the rigid custom water piping and the stock Porsche hoses that feeds the 2 radiators. Because of that I have the inlet and the outlet at the same level. I talked to the Meziere factory and they said under optimum conditions that the inlet should be higher than the outlet. The tech thought I would be OK, we'll see... I have also added a 3rd custom radiator which is larger than the Porsche transmission oil cooler.







Here's the custom "Y" fitting that ties the 3rd radiator into the water system. This is the left side.




Here's the heater core return line.

[Yan2947]

Mitch, that is some amazing plumbing! I see the photo with the adapter right off the block. It looks like you can thread the piping to either side of the block (the last picture posted). It is all very clean! Very nice work.

Yan

[Mitch Leland]

Just to follow up on my LS3 480 HP install on my 996, the acceleration and performance is "breath taking". I haven't really expanded the RPM's above 5 grand (red line is 7,000) because my transaxle is all new and it's needs breaking in just like the motor.

So far I have no regrets, however I'm still dealing with some electrical issues. I'll get them solved, but it will take some time and money since they're over my pay grade and Renegade doesn't have any schematic, here's how fixes either. I'm sure given enough time they will, but for now they just talk in generalities.

[Yan2947]

Mitch, Contrats! Would love to see some more photos of the car! What is the actual electrical issue you are having?

[Mitch Leland]

First off I did about 75% of the hard wiring, which included the fly by wire gas pedal, MSD window switch for the control of the A/C compressor, starter, oil pressure, water temp, and more. However to energize some of these accessories it takes a "trigger" from the alternator or sensors that says the engine is turning, i.e. the Porsche fuel pump. There wasn't anyway that I could figure this part out, plus I didn't want to cobble up the wiring, I hate that... I took it one step further and we removed all of the non-essential wiring from the 2 engine room Canon plugs. Renegade just wads the whole mess up and hides it behind the rear seats. They have their reasons which I'm sure is because you can do away with needed wires later. However we left pig tails so if that happen we could go back and tie it in.

I finally hired a guy who really knew his way around these issues, he even made his own wiring loom, it looks just like factory. He also redid the oil level sensor so that still works. However we got down to a half of dozen electrical issues that were going to take some time to sort out so I put my guy back on the airplane and sent him home before I went broke.

Here's the issues right now. Some are just nagging issues, others are critical to the use of the car.

1. Water temp gauge trips which is all Porsche, but for some reason the ECU gets some inputs that it doesn't like and the pointer goes to zero. I can clear it with my Durametric software and it might go again for 100 miles before doing it again.

2. Even though the articulating spoiler is gone, the ECU still thinks it's there and I'll get a MIL light on the dash at 74 MPH. There's a fix for that when you install the GT3 factory wing. However I no longer have the wiring room for that. So hopefully we'll find which pins in the Canon plug to jump to take care of that.

3. Again, the same as item 2, the engine room blower is gone, but the ECU thinks it's still there. We think if you re-install the engine room temp senor that might satisfy the ECU.

4. I have an ABS/PSM waring light that I can't get rid of. Not sure if it's because I've removed the front diff, the axles are the same. There's a chance I can clear that with a Porsche factory OBD PST2 or PIWIS reader. I get a 525 code, insufficient data to the DME.

5. Because of item 5 I'm not getting the MPG and miles to drive on the dash display.

6. The cruise control doesn't work, I think that's an important accessory for any contemporary high end car. If I wanted a race car I would have gotten something else. This will probably be the most challenging item on the list to fix.

Renegade says they're working on these items since they have customers with the same problems. At some point there should be schematics that takes all the drama out of this.

I'll be happy to answer any specific questions, I've made up a pretty extensive list of some of the finer points. This install doesn't have to be this hard/frustrating with better instructions.

Still for me the bottom line it's a match made in haven... acceleration, reliability, easy parts to fine, and cheap. I like it because I can see the engine instead of an air cleaner.








Remote P/S reservoir for the BMW Mini Cooper motor.

[KerryLange]

Wow, Mitch! Outstanding! I'm looking forward to seeing your car. Yellow is actually my favourite colour. My Boxster is black on black, which I also like but yours is really awesome! Thanks for posting the pics.

When I have some time, I'll post pics of the Boxster.

[Mitch Leland]

Thanks Kerry... I would love to see pixs of your Boxster. It helps if you would post your location on your profile. Or maybe you're some secret bunker that hides your Boxster... LOL

[MichiganMike]

Great looking build Mitch! Keep the progress and pics coming! :-)

[Mitch Leland]

I thought maybe some of you would find this interesting... I weighed my car with the LS3 motor installed, the installation is now pretty complete less the wiring issues that I had mentioned previously.

Bottom line my car is just about 200 lbs. less than the factory delivery. Here's a breakdown of how I got there:

Jan. 8, 2014

WEIGH IN FOR 2003 996 C2S

I weighed my car this evening using electronic scales borrowed from my friend Joe who runs the FBO at the airport.

1. 2003 Porsche C4S = 3,296 lbs. - 3,450 lbs. (spread is because different accessories will change the weight)

Removed:

1. Porsche engine and accessories
2. Front differential, drive shaft and axles
3. The rear spoiler, spoiler motor, hinges and drives
4. Engine blower fan
5. Engine wiring
6. Engine sheet metal for alternator and A/C compressor clearance (guessing 4 lbs.)
7. Rear seats - 10 lbs.

Added:

1. Electric Hydraulic power steering motor (guessing 15 lbs.)
2. Electric water pump (guessing 5 lbs.)
3. 3rd radiator, hoses and additional coolant
4. LS3 motor

Car now weighs 3,330 lbs.

Includes:

1. 16.6 gallons of gas x 6.5 lbs/gal. = 107 lbs
2. Oil - 6 qts. = 11.25 lbs
3. Coolant - 5.5 gallons - 9.33 Lbs. per gallon = 51 lbs.
4. Spare tire
5. Tools

Deduct gas, oil and coolant from empty weight comparison.

3,330 lbs
169.25 lbs. deduct
_________________
3,181 lbs. empty weight w/ the LS3 motor
3,375 lbs. assume factory weight with some accessories
________________
194 lbs less. after the LS3 motor is installed.

I think the bottom line is that my set up is probably less weight than the factory specs. If I hadn't taken out the front differential the LS/996 would probably weigh just about the same. However Renegaded touted that the GM motor carries it's accessories on the bottom of the engine where as Porsche has them on top. Lower C/G… Basically I have 150 more H/P with nearly 200 lbs. less.

The above works out only because I removed the front differential. However the RWD cars would be pretty much the same as my calculations. Here's the weights from the weighing:

Left Front - 677 lbs.
Right Front - 667 lbs.
Left Rear - 1,003 lbs.
Right rear - 982 lbs.

Left side - 50.5% - 1681 lbs
Rear - 59.6% - 1985
Cross - 50.2% - 1,670 (right front + left rear)P


Mitch Leland
"Home in the Hill Country"