The Big Flip

[mdu968]

Here's an interesting one

1991 964 Turbo sold on BAT for $76.5k + fees
Currently on Ebay bid up to $110k and has not hit reserve yet

The 964 gurus on BAT seemed to think the bid price was about right considering repaint, miles, engine work, accident and grey interior.

Will be interesting to see what it bids up to on Ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-964-Turbo-1991Porsche-964-Turbo/132746829840?hash=item1ee853e010:g:-LMAAOSwoJxbdcVB&vxp=mtr

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-porsche-911-turbo-10/

[1979-930]

Some sellers discount what a great interior/exterior detail and good pictures will do for the sale. If they want to get lazy then they deserve to have a poor sale.
This dealer knows how to sell a car.

I like that he used the prior owners engine rebuild photos in the e-bay add. Total gut punch

[speednme1]

Shill bidding somewhere...the seller paid less than $80k and it’s currently up to $110k with reserve not met. So far a $30k profit and reserve hasn’t been lifted? I call bs on the listing.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Shill bidding somewhere...the seller paid less than $80k and it’s currently up to $110k with reserve not met. So far a $30k profit and reserve hasn’t been lifted? I call bs on the listing.

Exactly what I was thinking. Car is probably worth around $90k IMO. It was a great buy on BAT. Of course no mention of the accident in the new ad. Typical shady Florida dealer.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Shill bidding somewhere...the seller paid less than $80k and it’s currently up to $110k with reserve not met. So far a $30k profit and reserve hasn’t been lifted? I call bs on the listing.

I'm not convinced. There are 3 bidders vying for it above $90k. Dealer is a fool if he doesn't drop the reserve, though he could already be talking with a buyer behind the scenes.

[hda]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Exactly what I was thinking. Car is probably worth around $90k IMO. It was a great buy on BAT. Of course no mention of the accident in the new ad. Typical shady Florida dealer.

Agree!
I am also following the auction - fastest $30k I have ever seen. I think the BaT price was low but I also think the 110k on eBay is WAY too high!

But who cares what I think - they are making $30k I am not

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by hda

Agree!
I am also following the auction - fastest $30k I have ever seen. I think the BaT price was low but I also think the 110k on eBay is WAY too high!

But who cares what I think - they are making $30k I am not

Cars like this are rarely bought on eBay sight unseen on a bid up. Ebay is a great advertising tool, but the bidding process is joke now a days. Anyone buying a car online with half a brain is going to do a little research. Throw the VIN in google and the BAT auction is the first thing to come up.

[hda]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Anyone buying a car online with half a brain is going to do a little research.

You are very optimistic when it comes to judging humans.

[specialtyoneinc]

Glass half full type of guy

[JMS935]

There is DEFINITELY lots of shill bidding on this auction, it’s actually very easy to spot if you know what to look for. Anytime a bidder shows up as 100% for bid activity with that seller, that can only mean one thing...it’s the seller bidding on it himself when it’s an item like this with a seller of this nature.

The highest legitimate bid in my opinion is only 68k, as that bidder only has an 8% bid activity with the seller. I.E. it’s an arms length bid, while every bid above that is far less likely to be arms length.

The bid activity % is essentially a shill bid accuracy gauge for sellers like this, the higher the number the more likely it is a shill bid. If we’re talking about a seller that has sold 100k items, and they have regular customers routinely buying small priced items from them, then a higher % makes total sense. But when we’re talking about a seller that hasn’t even hit 100 sales yet, and only moves high priced automobiles, it can only mean one thing - SHILL BID.

The top bidder (which is currently at $110,100) is at 100%, shill bid, without question.
The next highest bidder is at 76%, shill bid, just not quite as clear cut. The seller just uses this account to actually buy things on eBay, or bid on auctions listed by others.
The third highest bidder is 100%, shill bid, without question.
The next highest bidder is 8%, this is most likely the highest legitimate bid. It’s only 68k, which is still more than 12k shy of what the seller paid excluding taxes and transport costs. So this isn’t a slam dunk flip, let alone break even just to get out of it.

I believe the first bid at 10k is legit, the 2nd bid at 65k is legit, and the 68k bid is legit. The balance of the bids are all shill bids. Zero question in my mind.

The interior on that car is rough, both in terms of its color and its condition. I called that out on the BaT auction as to why it wouldn’t do well. Which is why I think it sold so low and also why the seller let it go at that price. And now I’m calling BS on the flipper with their shenanigans trying to profit on it. This is total bu||sh|t.

Was it a good buy? Yes. Can the seller flip if for a profit? Maybe. Will it be as easy as giving it a good detail and running an eBay auction right after closing? Not a chance. Is this current eBay auction riddled with shill bidding? There is no question about it, there are red flags EVERYWHERE.

It’s quite obviously not going to meet the reserve, and then the seller will contact the 68k bid and tell them they're offering the car privately to the top bidders at xxx price before relisting it. It’s a bull**** auction. I wouldn’t touch it with someone else’s money.

And now that I’ve so precisely detailed the many problems with this auction and the seller, maybe it’s now even harder for them to flip it for a profit...WP0AA2966MS480334

[specialtyoneinc]

Haha. The person who has the highest bid on 964 Turbo bid up their recent 997 Turbo auction. Shilly Shillerstein

upload an image

[JMS935]

Hilarious! As much as I ripped the ethics of that auction, and yet it seems as though I was actually giving the seller too much credit. Maybe the only legit bid is the opener at 10k! LMAO

[1979-930]

^^^ JMS, You need to add the vin# to your post to make sure it gets found on a google search.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

^^^ JMS, You need to add the vin# to your post to make sure it gets found on a google search.

I added it Derrick, though I think you could’ve done so as well with the same affect. I also amended it to show where the current high bid is that I was referring to since it’ll probably change with more shill bidding before the end of the auction, that way anyone wanting to go back and take a look at my analysis can do so from that spot.

I’ve got zero issues with capitalism, and flipping cars for a profit if you can do it, all the power to you. But c’mon, really?!? Like this? From BaT to eBay? And right away?

The air cooled 911 turbo community is a very small crowd, and we all watch BaT. Wtf were they thinking with this? At least sit on it for 6 months before attempting the flip. It’s far more likely to buy a car on eBay and flip it on BaT for a profit, than it is to go the other direction. It’s not like they bought a Honda Accord at a dealer only Manheim auction and then put it on eBay with a 3k mark up on it, where any potential retail (end user) buyer doesn’t have access to Manheim sales to see what the dealer paid for it.

That BaT auction had almost 23k views!!! Knock knock, dealer are you there? That means that literally everyone and anyone that might’ve had an interest in buying that car passed on it when you were the high bidder. So why would any of those viewers rethink it 3 weeks later and pad your pocket by tens of thousands of dollars? The answer is they wouldn’t.

I retract my previous comment about “maybe” turning a profit. I think they’ll keep re-running this auction with shill bidding to the point that they’ve totally burned the car and nobody has any interest in it. At which point they’ll either need to put it in deep storage for a while, or take a hair cut to move it.

[1979-930]

I could have posted the vin and thought about adding it. But my other thought was the google search snippet would not have had the meat of your post. Just a vin and no substantial info to click on.


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[pmax]

Yawn ...

such excitement over a commonplace practice in any auction.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by pmax

Yawn ...

such excitement over a commonplace practice in any auction.

I agree .......

[JMS935]

Shill bidding on eBay may be common practice, but buying an air cooled turbo on BaT and then attempting to flip it right away on eBay for a profit isn’t. That’s far from commonplace because it’s rarely ever a prosperous endeavor, which is what this thread was about. I merely highlighted the flaws with the auction.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by JMS935

Shill bidding on eBay may be common practice, but buying an air cooled turbo on BaT and then attempting to flip it right away on eBay for a profit isn’t. That’s far from commonplace because it’s rarely ever a prosperous endeavor, which is what this thread was about. I merely highlighted the flaws with the auction.

BAT is full of dealers.

What do you think they do with the cars they "buy" ?

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by pmax

BAT is full of dealers.

What do you think they do with the cars they "buy" ?

I guess we now know, they post them on eBay after taking delivery of it and shill bid the snot out of it hoping to land a sucker. It’s not the brightest way to try and flip a car when its purchase was made on such a public stage.