Project Question for the Brain Trust

[lsf911]

I have two opportunities but only have room for one project car.

What do you think would be a more desirable/worth while project in the long run...

1) 66 912 narrow body with 911 3.0 engine

2) 86 targa widebody backdate with original 3.2 engine

Lets say initial cost is equal. I know my preference, but do I plan on keeping the completed project forever...probably not, therefore would appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you in advance for your time.

[Matt Monson]

What previous Porsches have you owned?

[lsf911]

82 944 and 83 911sc

[dg567]

A coupe is more desirable than any targa IMO

[Cornerlot]

With these 2 non-stock cars, the condition is the biggest factor. A rust bucket 912 is less desirable than a solid Carrera. If the 912 (if a coupe) is solid (possible but unlikely) then I think it would be the choice.

[nathanbs]

I think he’s asking which will be worth more in 10 years as a proper build hotrod in either scenario. Condition and quality both being equal

[speednme1]

The 912 with the 3.0 would be best. The wide body backdated targa would probably cost more to build and would probably be worth less in the end.

[Macroni]

912

[msort81]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

I think he’s asking which will be worth more in 10 years as a proper build hotrod in either scenario. Condition and quality both being equal

Neither. In ten years we will be struggling to keep the temperature rise under +2c. Cars and Gas will be a radically different landscape. Regardless of incompetent leadership, climate change is very real. It will take time for a majority of people to see their children's lives threatened by 'natural' disasters. But eventually that's the reality.

Nothing moves a politician faster than a crying baby.

[Rick Brooklyn]

912 ainec. Swb with a 3.0 sounds like a wicked sweet car.

For the love of God leave the body alone though. Don't molest it with tacky mods. A swb sleeper that looks 99% stock but packs serious punch is my dream hot rod.

[NYNick]

912 all the way.
I have serious doubts you won't run into major rust issue being in Mass however.

[nathanbs]

It’s tough because the younger generation loves the RWB, Rocket-bunny, giant widebody on everything craze so if they are the porsche future then the wide targa. They happen to think targas are way cooler than we do. If you are appealing to the current porsche market then a narrow bodied SWB mild hotrod or R build is the way to go in my opinion

[trader220]

The current market would favor the 912. Who knows what the market will favor in 10 years.

My personal opinion is the 912 too. Like others have mentioned its probably going to need some serious metal and paint work. A SWB with a hot rod motor would be a fantastic car. 3.0 is a good choice depending on how its built.

[SalParadise]

I subscribe to the law of contrary public opinion: if everyone thinks one thing, then I say, bet the other way.

The late model Targa - hands down.

1) It's one of the last real aircooled 911s ever made.
2) It does not drive like a rickety old car
3) It's much better balanced as you won't have to use lead weights in the front bumper
4) Rust is probably never, ever going to be an issue. Ever, if it's stored inside.
5) It's a better car to drive - I don't care what other people say, it is. See #2
6) The Targa is a better choice for year-round driving
7) The 3.2 is a better engine than the 3.0 (except for valve guides). Engine management is far, far superior.

Pre-2012, people would have said the later Targa all day long. Now that most people have backdate, hot-rod, Magnus, old-school, long-hoods are better fever people jump on the old 912 bandwagon. It's a very old car. It drives like a very old car.

The later 911 has it all over the rickety 912 even with the 3.0.

[trader220]

Sal, with all due respect if you have been around this board for more then a couple years you'd see that people have been building hot rod long nose cars for far longer then Magnus has been on the map.

People have paid a premium for a coupe over a targa for a long long time too. I love Targa's and I have owned nearly a dozen over the years, regardless, the coupes are worth more and are better drivers.

You can install any suspension on either of those cars. You will make them feel much more modern with the installation of a properly set up suspension. The 912 will end up handling and driving better than the later targa, its lighter and stiffer. Just basic physics.

It comes down to this IMO.... Do you want an open top car at the expense of weight and rigidity? Other than that you can make the two cars drive and handle very similarly. There is no right or wrong answer, just personal preference.

[Matt Monson]

I'm going to agree with Sal for a number of reasons. I asked my question with intent. I wanted to know if the OP had any experience driving SWB cars and also experience working on them. These two vehicles are NOT the same thing.

You cannot just install any suspension on either of those cars. It's not a 69-73. It's a SWB. You cannot just throw in a 915 gearbox, which will be required for the power levels of the 3l engine. The real question here isn't which one will be worth more in ten years. It's a cost-benefit question. Building the SWB as described, will be TWICE the cost to get the project done, regardless of the OP's DIY skillset.

Then there is the skillset. If he's had an SC he's going to know his way around the 86 immediately. If he takes on the 912, there will be a substantial learning curve. And rust. And corrosion. Just tearing the car down will be a lot more work. It's a bigger project. The OP needs to go into it eyes wide open to that fact.

Lastly there is how the cars drive, and especially at the limit. If you aren't just going to buff it and take it to cars-n-coffee, the chassis differences do matter. A lot of people go to a SWB from a LWB car and don't like it. I personally love it, but I would recommend anyone about to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a project get some seat time prior to pulling the trigger. Make sure it is what you want. He already knows how the LWB car is going to drive.

I dismiss that whole targa versus coupe argument. Once it's done, there won't be much difference in stiffness or handling. If what the OP wants is really a coupe, then he just keeps shopping for a different coupe chassis to build on. Only 2 cars have been presented, two very very different cars. There's hundreds of projects for sale at any given time. There's no reason to settle. If one is going to undertake a multi-year project, get exactly what you want on the front end. I've learned that the hard way. I never should have bought my 74 coupe when what I really wanted was a targa. I've regretted it ever since.

[sm70911]

Neither. if these were it you wouldn't have a question. Wait for what really speaks to you.

[techweenie]

Coupe vs Targa is totally subjective, and I'm generally allergic to Targas. But I find the idea of a backdated 3.2 Targa very appealing, absent photos...

10 years from now, my bet is the 66 will have more value, and in the meantime, should be a hoot to drive.

So I guess my post doesn't answer the original question, but for me, it would come down to condition.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Coupe vs Targa is totally subjective, and I'm generally allergic to Targas. But I find the idea of a backdated 3.2 Targa very appealing, absent photos...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/576169-rs-iroc.html

Penske's targa in post #3 is kind of my dream car. It's darn near perfect for me.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You cannot just install any suspension on either of those cars. It's not a 69-73. It's a SWB. You cannot just throw in a 915 gearbox, which will be required for the power levels of the 3l engine.

Please tell more. What kind of tranny do you need to install? 901 core with upgraded internals?