BAT bidders are obsessed w/ low mileage Porsches and yet I have never seen anyone post an image of a Speedometer VDO date stamp. So easy to do…many dubious low mileage claims.

$2000 to remove the interior mildew and exterior detail. They also replaced the fuel gauge ($165), warm-up valve ($1011), fuel distributer ($3202), etc. I know this would not hurt a car in concours but so much for only original once. Where did they get the 930 fuel pump ($447)? I have not been able to find original 930 fuel pumps anywhere in the Porsche parts system?:confused:

This is a common problem in general. I looked at a lot of cars that clearly had the speedo reworked, disconnected or replaced. I know of several that sold not necessarily on BaT that had 100k miles more than the odo reads. Both seller and buyer alike were clueless and relied on the carfax to confirm miles. LOL

Like the black 964C2 that the owner claimed had the speedo repaired only after someone brought up the discrepancy in the paperwork. I have no doubt that was another car with far more miles than represented. He also never supplied documentation for any of the work he claims he was involved with.

It is so easy to be taken by unscrupulous sellers if you don't educate yourself about these cars.

Conversely, especially buying at auction, a seller may not be not aware of negative aspects and may hold to his price thinking it is worth it, however an unscrupulous seller may sell for less knowing it is not as good as represented thus both can be distorting the value expected for the offer. So yes, research and know what your buying along with a in person look, drive, PPI, records checking is a prefered way to be more certain, if your time permits. BAT is at least getting buyers some good free advice from some savvy commenters.

Ha, Agreed. I knew the original owner kept everything by that flight log book.
Spot on Pilot mentality.

Seller sure effed himself on that one. I bet he has the original seats too. [emoji38]



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Who knows what the hell he was thinking. How hard is it to just say the seats were installed by dealer at the time of purchase? It’s not that difficult, nor that harmful to value, if any at all. And this all lead to the missing options sticker, which is actually a much bigger deal for this car. That’s a conundrum for sure with such a low mileage car and an original owner that retained every document possible to go with it. I don’t know how you trust the seller now with whatever explanation he gives for it after this blunder. Regardless of explanation, though, this one will hurt the value.

The irony of it all...there might never have been a request to see the hood option sticker if he just stated the sport seats were not a factory option! :eek: This is a perfect example of the saying...you reap what you sow.

Very curious where the 88 930 ends up. It's a concourse example, but the seller not being completely transparent will not help this car bring the money it deserves. Pictures of service records and a paint meter readings would definitely help the sale. Right now I would be skeptical if I was a serious buyer. History and official documentation is crucial on these top tier collector examples.

Nice play on words - concourse, since the original owner is a pilot, but I think you meant concours. :)

Agreed, the missing options stickers are a major problem, especially for a car that comes with a complete set of records. That’ll ding the value for sure, so I wonder if the seller lowers his reserve now after this bump in the road.

How does a odo roll back get past CarFax?
Car fax lists miles every year.

Carfax is only compiling mileage (or any other notes) as often as it gets entered into their system. For example, if a car sits for 8 years in a garage, then there won’t be any Carfax notations on it whatsoever during that time period.

I would imagine there is a possibility that the original purchaser wanted sport seats and had the dealer swap out the seats prior to delivery then the seller would not have the original seats. This would have been the best and most logical answer for the seller to offer. I purchased a new car in 92 from dealer stock that had cloth interior and I wanted leather the dealer changed the entire interior over to leather and that did not appear anywhere on the options codes only on the handwritten bill of sale.

And unfortunately would not be original. Similar to dealers installing slant nose kits. Not quite the same as the factory or Werks 1 doing it

Yep. The big difference being its affect on value, the sports seats having not much if any, while a dealer installed slant nose package wrecks the value, as least in comparison to the factory version. As much as this seller claims to know about these cars, you’d think he’d have known that and not gone down this path.

They should also show the date stamps on the underside of the "dealer installed" sport seats. I'll bet the dates are quite different from the production date of the car. Did dealers back then have spare sports seats sitting around ready to install?:confused:

Many states don't record miles during inspection or have inspections at all which would be the source for that info. I have seen switches installed to disconnect electronic speedos and have seen others swap out speedos with a second to use while driving keeping the other on a shelf until needed. It is very easy to crack open the units and roll back and many have broken gears that go for years without racking up miles.

Same goes for accident damage. If it doesn't go through insurance or no police report it is not noted. When the cars weren't worth much many would be repaired by the owner instead of risking the car being totaled and receiving an S title. I have helped take cars down to bare metal that the owner was convinced was original but aged paint only to find multiple spots of bondo and bent panels. It isn't uncommon to find clean carfaxes for cars that are so badly damaged they shouldn't be on the road the damage was that bad. Someone paid someone to fix but didn't have the equipment and got as close as they could but the tubs were all twisted.

Trusting a carfax is a mistake IMO and means little. It is only worth the price if it notes actual damage but how can you be sure unless you know what to look for.

Dealers probably didn't have the seats sitting around but they surely could have ordered a set through the pipeline and had them at the dealership ready to put in when the car got their for delivery.

The thing with the mileages on these older Porsches isn't about Carfax. As we all know there is a little plastic gear in the odo that degrades over time and often fails. When you read a carfax and the mileage hasn't changed for years at a time there is a good chance its bogus. If you read the carfax and the miles don't change and the car has its registration continually renewed each year, the chances are the odo broke, the owner didn't have it fixed but kept the car on the road.

What’s interesting is the Carfax reports 4 owners yet the mileage stayed under 7k miles. I wonder if this car was being traded among car dealers using dealer plates.

That wouldn't show up as new owners. Dealers can reassign the title without putting it in their name. In Colorado there are 4 lines for dealer reassignment on the back of a title. I've bought cars that were through 2 dealers without new registration before if got to me.

The Carfax shows 4 owners because there have been 4 owners.

1. Original owner (the pilot).
2. Friend of original owner.
3. Original owner bought it back from friend.
4. Current owner / BaT seller.

This is all listed in the 1st paragraph of the auction.

What's the final number going to be on this turbo?

In NJ every time a new title/owner is issued, mileage must be recorded. Can’t imagine other States don’t do the same regardless of who the buyer is.

They dont. Some states are a joke, others dont even issue titles for cars as old as 964's or impact bumper 911's

Interesting BAT auction...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-porsche-911-carrera-4s-20/

This car had 106,156 back in 2010, the last mileage note on the carfax. Now it shows 106,200 and its listed saying the speedo was rebuilt. Okay so no idea of how many miles in the last 8 years huh? No photos of the seats or underside?

$175k plus fees is my guess

It is a bit odd, but I think that NJ is far more thorough when titling a car vs Florida.

I’ll take the under. I think the missing options stickers plus the monkey business written in the service manual will hold it back some, even though the car itself is mint.

$170k including fees. Market correct IMO.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-porsche-911-turbo-930-2/?blm=5

$165,000.

Peanut Gallery's opinion?

Is there a parallel BAT universe type deal going on here ?

If the seller had been more transparent from the beginning he would probably have gotten 20-30k more.

Yep, maybe not that much more, but he cost himself some cash for sure. And I bet he might’ve even lowered the reserve mid auction to get it sold now too after that debacle.

Can someone explain the vin tags on this 88 turbo? The TSB for the 89 and 94 964's indicate all panels including doors, door jams. rear and front bumpers, hood, deck lid etc all should have vin tags. I am not familiar with the 88's but they show a vin tag under the hood and on the rear deck lid but I see no signs on the doors, door jams etc.

The engine fan is very corroded considering miles and overall condition which I find odd along with the new engine sound pad.

A gut feeling I have is this car is not what it seems to be. I have seen cars that have 56K miles on them that look the same from the bottom. My gut tells me there are shenanigans involved - but the seller and buyer don't seem to care.

There's a lesson here: If you're not sure about something, just say "I don't know, but I'll find out!" Don't make stuff up, people.

^Wise words

I think so too. The logbook seems a little odd to me, I know pilots are fastidious quirky creatures but it still seems odd. After the hand written options “sticker” appeared with the sports seat code and the window sticker was finally revealed showing no sport seats, I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole thing was a forgery.

BAT - Auction for the silver RSR . Style 911...
I posted a comment and BAT never posted it...as I guess they didn't like me stating the market for Cars has dried up due to the Stock Market crashing...meaning there is no 1% buying cars.

I saw several Posts by others pop up and quickly deleted by BAT...I assume they were also pointing out the obvious.

BAT may be over till the next wave of 1% get their bonuses and Tax credits!

Here is another prime example of either BaT blinders, or some shady sh|t again. And I’m not so sure it’s the BaT blinders here, since the ‘buyer’ is brand new to BaT.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-mercedes-benz-clk63-amg-black-series-4/

Did someone really choose to pay thousands more than they needed to? Or did the seller just get caught holding the bag shill bidding their own auction? I’m wondering if maybe they shill bid it under their reserve yet still up too high, thinking it would just be RNM, but instead BaT cut their commission - took less - and sold it anyways. LMAO

Either way it’s pretty funny. The only two options are a completely obtuse buyer, or, a seller that just paid BaT a lot of money for nothing.

The seller was the same seller I mentioned the other day with regard to questionable practices. It does seem really fishy.

On the 2008 997 base coupe he no sale'd and then "sold" outside BAT to one of the bidders..... I know exactly what he paid for that car and I cannot imagine he made anything on it knowing his rough costs after purchasing the car at Manheim. I suspect it will show up on his site or another again at a high price.