This is the black 964 coupe? Which dealer chimed in?

I find it interesting that people want to hold BaT to a higher standard than other sales facilitators. We expect these seller games on eBay, CL, and Samba. And don't get me started on the cr@p that rolls across the stages at the big auctions.

The only difference with BaT is the peanut gallery. If I was looking to buy, I can't see myself trusting very many of the commenters. Just like with any other site, I'd want to see it in person, or have an agent do so for me.

Imagine if BaT purged all of these plants and shills...how few real members there actually are. It does seem like most auctions have their fair share of these.

I don't think plants/shills represent the majority. I also think at times its obvious. Lets not forget some of the practices of some of the sellers. One dealer from Dallas, endlessly flogs his own auctions and opening solicits for aftermarkets like trucking and extended warranty sales. Does constantly posting what a great deal the car is at "$10 grand more than the current bid" or endlessly reminding people how much time is left and they should bid aggressively really work?

I say so few because the vast majority of the comments are praising the cars when often times there’s not much to actually praise. It’s almost like some of these members, whether plants or not, give the same glowing praises day in and day out regardless of the actual condition of the subject car just to post a comment. It’s ridiculous to say the least. So even if they’re not actual plants, they still offer no value whatsoever to the website. They’re nothing more than fillers just taking up space. Remove all of the shills, plants and fillers...and you’re not left with much.

I would agree with you, there would be basically a silent auction. I find much of the banter entertaining. As someone who has a dealer's license, has access to a vast amount of market information, and who buys and sells cars frequently, I just laugh at some of the unfettered BS that people offer up as substantive comments on condition or pricing. JMS if you recall I am also a former derivatives trader, the trader in me instinctively kicks in as I watch these auctions. The bidding strategies, the comments, the shills, the plants, they all add to the entertainment value.... as someone said earlier...at times its like watching a train wreck, you just can't turn away.

I view it the exact same way, and I’m a former trader myself. Most of it is a joke. I was in the pits at the CBOT many years ago, first as a broker filling house orders, then on my own as a local. Back when there was actually pit trading, with writing each trade down on a trading card! Jeez, that seems like ages ago.

I had seats on the PHLX, AMEX, CME and PSE at different times. Ten years I was a market maker for a few different larger firms, ten years I was with 2 partners we had market makers on 4 different exchanges. Sure there are times I miss the old days too. I know what its like to actually trade in a pit, when your word actually meant something, when the **** hit the fan and you couldn't turn off your computer and ghost the market. Its a lost skill, and a long dead way of life. The lessons you learn on how to read markets and people are valuable skills. The whole way I think about any business is shaped by what I learned as a trader. Its one of the reasons I am both critical and entertained by the BAT auctions.

I had a CME seat, which ironically ended up being my best trade. :eek: I traded grain options myself.

I hear ya on the ‘your word is your bond’ thing, which is basically not applicable to anywhere but on a trading floor. I’ve been burned a few times expecting that motto to be reciprocal to me, and learned the hard way that that bond is only relevant in a trading pit environment.

The following comment is cut and pasted from the black 964 C2 coupe as three bidders duke it out 250 bucks a pop at the end of the auction.

"The three top bidders have all gotten their BAT accounts this month. Have not made a comment or bid on any car but this one"

And what are the chances they all have the same IP address too. Hmmm...

LoL

The same crap goes on at the live auctions too. Many years ago there was a big tah doo at the BJ auction and they kicked out some journalists who had exposed some of the trickery they use. That's why I love the trading floor.... if you bid there you better be prepared to own em there. Conversely...."hit the bid or hit the road"

At live auctions there's even the concept of the "chandelier bid", when the auction guy fishes for action by throwing in a kind of a fake bid from the house, which is customarily done by discreetly pointing at the ceiling (where the chandelier hangs from, hence the name). That's some top bull****.

There's usually a lot of cheerleading on BAT, until the trend turns, then people jump on the 'trash the car' bandwagon.

It's fun to watch, IMO.

Yeah, I had the cheerleaders on my FJ40 auction that closed yesterday, and the worm never turned on me so I didn't get any trash talk. All in all, I thought my experience selling there was not bad. Was hoping the bidding might take off, but since I had set the reserve at a level I could live with, any sale was OK.

And while the final minutes of the auction were stressful, I honestly don't think I could have done any better elsewhere, and this didn't require as much effort as trying to sell on other forums and such.

Agreed. I've only bought one and sold one car on BAT. While I think they are not the most organized when dealing with the seller, the platform seems to be a good place to find and sell good examples of cars. While not every car is good, the percentage that are is much, much better than what you see on ebay etc. The sales prices they attain are typically very good too.

Even with all its faults, I enjoy watching the auctions when I can. As some have said...often its like watching a train wreck, you just can't turn away. So often it makes me chuckle when I read grossly misinformed comments, especially on pricing.

This is one of the sellers that makes me laugh:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-911-carrera-6/#comments

His comments thanking people for all the "emails, phone calls and stopping by"

I call BS. Its a plain Jane base carrera 997 people are not popping out of the woodwork to come see it, call about it or sending him emails. Evidenced by the fact that he represents more posted comments on his auction than anyone else. The substance of his comments its essentially nothing but cheerleading.

The car he is selling was purchased at Manheim in Manheim PA a month ago for low $40's plus fees. I don't think he's turning a profit on this one.

This is one of the sellers that makes me laugh:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-911-carrera-6/#comments

Funny how such a stock looking 997 looks dated to me now. The way the height is set, the wheel size, the styling. Back in the noughties i thought this was a stunningly good looking car.

Auctions are for suckers and clowns.

If you're a real man you have connections in the car world and buy the car before it ever hits the market. If you are a real man, but lack in funds, you can hit Craigslist or something like the Bargain News - and get vicious. If you are a real man, and lack complete social grace or pocket change for a paper, then hit the back roads and knock on doors when you see something interesting out back or in the garage.

Auctions are for people who don't know a thing about classic cars - nor do they care, because they like the thrill of it - like gambling and gaining their precious moments of glory. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/loki5.gif

I agree about auctions and IMO BaT is a joke for all but a few. I do find it entertaining and there are some serious clueless characters that never cease to amaze.

I have witnessed first hand two low mile grade A 993TT's sell for far less than they should due to inane comments and BaT pushing for a low reserve. Interestingly they both did not meet reserve but BaT stepped up and covered the difference. Yet there are cars that aren't remotely worth their reserve they let slide and the sellers are clearly being evasive and dishonest with ads BaT shouldn't even be considering posting.

I agree with much of what's been posted. Definitely shady stuff going on (plants, sock puppets, shill bids, etc.). There is nothing in their system to try and prevent that, I'm not sure they even want to.

Two things I've said before and will say again:

1. Someone pointed out most posters there are cheerleaders. There's a good reason for that. They censor out many legit negative posts! I know that for a fact. On the other hand, it appears no matter how wrong or absurd a positive post is, it'll never get censored. So, they are stacking the deck and secretly manipulating bidders.

2. They are doing a huge cash grab with 200+ auctions going at once, but it is hurting them. Bidding and prices are down. I glanced at the results for today, for example, and it looks like the majority of auction ended RNM. That's a problem. It causes a loss of both buyers and sellers (and spectators).

They seem to be aware of the problem,I noticed in unsuccessful auctions they don't call it "reserve not met" anymore, but instead the more euphemistic "bid to $ X" to downplay a yet another RNM auction.

That may certainly be your opinion, but what does an auction have to do with being a real man? Does a real man write a check instead of using a credit card? Does a real man balance his checkbook instead of using a laptop and checking his account on line? Does a real man use single ply instead of 2 ply?..lol...

Different strokes for different folks, I don't think someone's manhood has anything to do with his or her decision. It's just the sign of the times Mr. Dinosaur:D

[QUOTE=McLovin;10274335]I agree with much of what's been posted. Definitely shady stuff going on (plants, sock puppets, shill bids, etc.). There is nothing in their system to try and prevent that, I'm not sure they even want to.


They used to be in the business of collating cool cars from source and enthusiast driven traffic. Thats the real genius of BAT. They built a loyal and engaged following, all kinds of car people contributed so the site became very credible to a sector of the market. Then they added the auctions.

They are smart because the site is not covered in advertising, does not appear greedy, & there are still some links to non BAT auction cars, not many, but enough to keep the belief.
Theoretically Pelican, could do the same thing for the brands it carries parts for, because it has the following. That's the thing you can't buy.

I helped present several cars at the Amelia concours this year and stopped by the auctions. I watched cars that looked great to most but were clearly not as represented. They were bid up to multiples of market value and will take a long time for the market to catch up if ever. 1600 mile cars with full resprays and mismatched parts. Prior S title cars sold with clean titles etc. Clear deception but it is up to the buyer to know what they are bidding on. It is amazing how few actually have a clue or just in denial about the cars they buy. BaT seems to take it to a new level lately and IMO went from being a decent tool to actual hurting the markets.

For those that don’t believe that censorship is going on at BaT, here you go...

This just happened to my latest post (non-post) late last night, just a few hours ago. I’m on their ‘watchlist’ now since I’m willing to speak my mind, I.E. not just be a robotic BaT cheerleader. And since I know this now I actually toned down this comment, yet they still scrubbed it from the auction. If I could’ve freely spoke my mind, I wouldn’t have sanitized it to get past the freedom of speech monitors, yet it still failed to get posted.

Here is the auction...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-porsche-911-turbo-930-2/

Here is a screen shot of my post I took (probably only viewable to me at that time) since I know they scrub them if I’m not blindly praising a car...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1544103353.jpg

Note that it doesn’t even show as a post that was then flagged as not constructive - it was totally erased from the auction altogether. This platform is a total joke as far as I’m concerned, I’d never buy a car there. If you wonder why nobody has commented on something like this, it’s because many of us are getting scrubbed from the auction.

It is odd that someone this particular did not save the window sticker. But the rest of the paperwork is there. So I'll agree the seat option does not add up.
The factory muffler was swapped out by the original owner. I'll assume for a louder or sporty muffler. So someone that wants the extra sound may have also wanted the sport seats the car did not come with and added those too.
The new owner does not want the buyers to know and has disposed of the window sticker.
I'm just assuming this because of the muffler swap and the detailed paperwork minus the window sticker.
Anyone else that knows a military pilot also knows that he saved the window sticker.


I will add the Porsche of Atlanta bent him over good on the service work.
R&R Clutch $1,970.00 labor
Then $930.00 labor to service it
Then $387.00 labor to remove the aftermarket muffler and install the original muffler. The engine is out... That took 3+ hrs :rolleyes:
Then $310.00 labor to change the decklid struts with the engine out? That's a 15 min job.
Crooks!

And I cannot stand reading the comments at BAT auctions. The goof balls with their Widowmaker comments and stories annoy me. Theses cars are a joke compared to modern power.
Anyone who thinks they are a handful in stock form needs to stick to driving their Prius.

That was the point I was trying to make in the other thread about this car, yet everyone seemed to buy into the seller’s BS and just chalked it up to COA issues. Huh, looks like I was right after all. Surprisingly everyone gives this guy a pass and believes him simply because it’s a 6k mile car, if it were 60k miles the entire BaT community would be calling him out on it.

The most baffling part of that seat issue is that the seller has potentially made a mountain out of a molehill. Nobody would give a sh|t if the seats have been swapped out, it doesn’t affect value at all as far as I’m concerned since the stock seats can be bought for very little money, while the seats installed are a premium. Instead, he now risks sabotaging his own auction for literally nothing if he’s been caught in a lie, which it sure looks like he has.

My bet...those ‘notes’ in the service book that were just posted in the image gallery were written by the seller after reading CVLC’s post about them just yesterday. Why didn’t he just handwrite in the two sport seat options on the COA as well while he was at it!

The car is supreme, the seller however, seems shady.

What a joke.

This seller comment is quite priceless:


Terryborcheller (The Seller) 12

#HMW original owner was a pilot, probably from somewhere within the aviation world

Good to know that if you're a pilot you're somewhere within the aviation world.

It wouldn't surprise me if who the seller is is influencing how the BaT boys treat him and his auction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Borcheller

So he’s a liar as well as being completely obtuse. :eek:

Somethings fishy going on with that option sticker. Handwritten is a joke. RNM is my guess.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-911-carrera-6/#comments


I guess seller posting about all the calls, emails and people stopping by, weren't enough to drive the price up enough?

This car sold at Manheim PA in October for $42,500 plus fees. Then he had trucking to TX and whatever he put into the car, supposed "paint correction" and some other work.

I didn't think it had a chance of going to mid $40's on BAT. Water cooled cars typically don't do over retail on Bat. Of course there are a few exceptions.

I feel completely the opposite. When I look at a 992 I cringe at what kind of dadmobile luxobarge the 911 has become, and the goofy monster jam 21" rear wheels are the part I hate the most.

I agree. Goofy is being kind. It's like a rolling joke show. I did a double take when I first saw one and thought it wasn't for real.

997 is the last 911 looking Carrera. Stylistically I have zero interest in the current crop of cars outside the factory racers.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1544154369.jpg

I watched some BaT scrubbing on the recent 1976 930 sale. The seller (whom I casually know) was active the last several minutes of the auction. So ~ I was watching (and still contributing) with interest. Anyhow while the bids started to roll in at the end the seller (BeardBros) would try to interject to let people know that the bids were close to the reserve. He would post "not too much further" and it would pop up as written - for about five seconds... Then poof the whole post was gone... About another bid or two later the seller would attempt to post again "not too much further!" and then in about one second poof it too was gone. Right before my eyes.

I dunno if they powers at be were helping or what, but they were scrubbing for sure. And obviously without the sellers consent.

Did it help the sale? Who knows. It sold right on target from what I saw of the car in person. I guess its their playground and they can do what they like.

When they list your car BaT sends you an email with a big letter warning saying do not disclose the reserve, it's bad for the auction. So I guess it makes sense that they censor the reserve disclosing comments.

It looks like I called that auction and seller right after all, the auction has gone off the rails, just like I suspected...all due to this sport seat issue the seller brought on himself.

The window sticker has just been added to the auction - THERE ARE NO SPORT SEATS ON IT, so my bet was dead right. The handwritten option codes in the service manual are bunk, and definitely written during the auction, but before posting the window sticker. What a mess this seller has made out of something so minor.

I hate to say it, but I couldn’t have been more accurate on this one. It’s unfortunate I called the mountain out of a molehill too, hopefully the seller can still get it sold now after tanking his own auction with his factory optioned sport seats fib.