^^^

Yep, hard :eek: to refute the photographic evidence, Deez!!!

LOL, OK back on topic ...

Porsche ditched this caveman tech in the 70s.

The old school guys had no other option ... the computer stuff wasn't up to snuff then. If it were, I bet those guys would have done the same.

Today ? It's just a quaint choice.

Driving vintage cars is quaint. W don’t do it looking for the newest tech. We do it for fun. For some, just driving the car is fun. For others the fun is in doing the mods as well.

not so much a beat down, but again the pony-boy with his passive/aggressive call out of me muddying up the tech forum with some humor even in a 914 tech question in the 911 section. he does reference the sting I laid on him regarding his condescending tone while dispensing his wealth of knowledge describing my comments as "coming at him with a vengeance"...… funny thing is I got nothing from the admins warning me of inappropriate content and what can become of it... see raw on this....


he could very easily put me on ignore like others have that have no appreciation for my flavor, but to this point he hasn't as far as I can tell. ill pick my spots with the pony-boy moving forward, even antagonizing him some given the chance simply for the sport of it. see the recent overuse of BOLDENED FONT as an example.

I don't ever recall past or current legends of knowledge talking down to people so frequently. your grady clays, john walkers and even the occasionally grumpy earlySman were always respectful to those inquiring. pony-boy not so much.



ill be here if you wanna send him over for another "beat down" of me in this sandbox where there are no snitches, or pony-boy hero worshipers. yourself pnutz included.



I really need to get my move to the foothills completed as waiting out escrow killing time here in the bay has left me with idle hands for this nonsense. can't wait to get up there, put on my caveman garb and get to tuning my webers for the higher altitude. contrary to recent examples I do have better things to do in the big picture.

dam it all M2, you've made me tear up twice in the same thread now.

Industry and marketplace perceptions need to move forward here. We're going to fall behind even the muscle car crowd.

It's a fuel delivery system upgrade, not an electric drivetrain conversion.

It seems to me when the tech forum lost Clay a few years ago, that was a major turning point given his unofficial role in moderating and setting the tone.

Forum also lost that irreverent humor from some of the other folks back then.

I don’t even know what this means.

I've always been amazed by the general lack of humor and readiness by many to take offense at any commentary they don't like (even when not involved at all in the funny exchanges). Like I mentioned to Tobs yesterday, it's sometimes hard for me to believe that this is supposed to be a place for "car guys" (as opposed to a Puritan meeting house). Thankfully the Marketplace forum exists!

Gotta agree with the quaintness factor - everything about a 911 is qiaint, Stone Age design and tech. It always makes me laugh when someone says that some mod, wheel type, etc., looks "dated"; the whole fookin' car is dated!

my pops has a resto-mod, non matching numbers 67 Chevelle SS396 that spent time as a drag racer in the late 70 & early 80 so it's been terribly molested, but a very cool car none the less. he a year or so back pulled the holley 4 barrel off it and went to an EFI system to the tune of $2500 complete! he did install/program it himself so that added cost was nonexistent.

you really can't compare muscle cars with our cars because for 2500 you ain't gunna sniff an efi system as you are all aware. shoot, you prolly could not have a shop rehab a cranky CIS system for $2500 for parts and labor on a 911.


long and the short of it we are paying the porsche tax on all things related to these cars. im not saying a muscle car is cheap to mod, just not stupid expensive for the basics. ive had a jeep now for about a year & a half with FI (how about that nutz? a fuel injected caveman!) and I chuckle at times looking at cost to mod stuff compared to the porsches ive had over the years.


at least you can still buy new components for carbs if you look in the right places. in so many places CIS parts have the dreaded NLA tag in the catalog. who's in the dark ages now?

CIS is total dark ages. It’s a mechanical fuel delivery system, not an electronic one. Pick your poison; carbs, cis, or Mfi. Before the 3.2 it’s all ancient hardware.

I think everyone is being playful here and not taking it too seriously. Learning a lot from you guys. I'm dumping my CIS for carbs.... it's fun, has a cool factor and reminds me of my old VW days back in high school. Sure there are better setups and this and that but everything has a price tag. I set my budget with Carbs being part of the package... .is there a better setup.... of course there is. There is always something better, faster, etc. My college basketball coach put it best one day... Opinions are like butt holes..... everyone has one and most of the time they stink..... This is not directed at anyone here as I appreciate all the feedback , banter, and learnings.

If I wanted to spend another $4 or $5k on my $75k build worth $55k :), I would definitely do ITB's or put Motec it is the way to go :) Had to draw the line somewhere though.

Carbs (and CIS) are no cheaper if paying someone to tune them.

Seems like EFI systems all use similar components, sensors, ECU, injectors, rails with the SW being the key enabler. No p-car only parts is a good thing costwise, eventually.


Yeah, CIS is dark ages as well, no question there but it is OEM, as I said in my initial reply to this formerly tech forum thread. Many parts are still available, Jetronic were used in many other makes, both common and "exotic", so it's not that bad a situation.

Whoa, what's with this all non-asshattery discussions in PPMPF ? Raw would be sorely disappointed.

raw may take me to the wood shed on this one, but with your extensive study of the CIS system nutz what makes you think you could not become carb familiar? you seem to be pretty sharp, albeit a bit awkward socially here im sure you could get a grasp if you really wanted to.

I realize you must have your SC smogged and that precludes any differing delivery system than stock. you seem to be afraid to death of carbs when once you learn a bit about them you may likely become addicted too. ive been working with my current carbs now for a couple years and am way more comfortable with them than I ever was with the CIS system in my old SC.

to each his own, but carbs are bold AF and that fits my bill. I knew I was a carb guy the day my CIS was removed during the spec racer build and I drove it around the block with carbs that 1st day.

consider stopping by some Saturday or sundee in the next few weeks before I leave for the foothills and we can take my car for a drive. im confident you will exit the car grunting, dragging your knuckles on the ground and begin looking for your very own caveman club.. I know it will leave your SC feeling FLAT AF in comparison.

If I wasn't so addicted to the boost pipe, and owned one of the slower 911 models like many of you boyz do, I would do the same. I've always liked carbed engines, and have a lot of past experience tuning them, so would enjoy the 911 carb process, no doubt . . . except for the, "lack of horsepower and torque" variable of a naturally aspirated, vintage Porsche six. Turbo powaaaaahhhhh, or might as well walk!!! :)


pNutz, one area where CIS sucks royally is tuneability (not talking about idle AFRs either, and shiit). There is no way to tune the system if the components are left unmodified - invasive work needs to be done to the WUR, and then the fuel head, if one is not satisfied with the as-delivered tune and weak power output of the stock system. This is not a big deal for those that are happy with original performance, but for people that require more, like me :), this means added expense and learning just to make the fuel system adjustable.

dam, that's 3x ive teared up now in this one thread. im so emotional these days...


you'll find this here sandbox hard to quit CbA…...

The convoluted airflow is another, even when compared with other Jetronic cars.

Yeah, the quest for more power, folks spending tens of thousands for what .... 10-20 hp and butt dyno claims, not interested and definitely not with a caveman system you can ruin an engine with. These cars are hardly "fast" to begin with by today's standards.

Good point about the less than ideal airflow setup. With the Turbos, the air that travels from the air metering housing, and to the compressor inlet of the turbocharger, several feet, through several different diameter pipes and hoses (none of which are straight - kinda like this subforum :eek:). Sure is weird to look at but maybe of no performance consequence given the massive sucking :eek: force of the compressor impeller.



BUTT many people are interested, as the quest for more power, regardless of how much more and at what expense, is all part of the fun of ownership.

If one wants to come close to modern standards of sports car acceleration and speed, all one needs to do is boost that bisch. You would be fookin amazed by the level of outright haulass these cars can do with the addition of a few pounds of compressed air - no joke. Not cheap, but not in the tens of thousands if you do most of your own work, and not dangerous for the engine if best practices are applied to the build (aka - proper fuel tune, particularly during load/boost, and safe psi levels used as determined by the engine's static compression ratio . . . also steps taken to rid the engine of the extra heat generated),

I have no doubts about the sucking force :eek:

The SC/middie CIS intake is just weird, why not a dual central intake with equal runners off to each bank, perhaps with a dual FH setup, add a touch of color for those obsessed with the aesthetics of their engine compartment and perhaps even better performing.

More money than time. Having said that, time should be free when it's a hobby.

The low end grunt ... that's what matters in practical use, isn't it ? That ice cold AC probably requires gobs of it and would no doubt quickly bring those caveman engines to their knees.