3.0 CIS System Complete 1983 Whats it worth

[pmax]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

Such a pretty engine compartment.

That fan is fastidiously clean. What's the caveman beauty secret ?

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

BTW - our cars have very similar fuel comsimpipn numbers - around 9-12 mpg highway for me, depending on how much boosting I do (which is as much as possible - the point of owning a car like this, of course).

The difference is you are actually making and using that power , as if TurboRaw needs more encouragement.

You're no caveman chugging on ancient systems and spewing it out and into the case.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

pNutz, two areas where the Turbo CIS goes full caveman is at boost onset and sudden closed throttle - both situations create an excessively rich condition since the prehistoric fuel system is a slow responder (maybe not as slow as carbs would be in similar conditions).

Oh, I hear that Toby keeps his fan assembly clean and tidy by polishing it weekly with a diaper (same thing he does with his ****, but that's a daily routine! )!!!

[CBA]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

some inspiration hopefully....

Love it. Thanks for sharing. Exactly what I needed. I think I saw something on here about pnutz being a Negative Nellie on Carbs. 😁. Find it interesting that 2 of the top engine builders around who happen to be on the west coast still recommend carbs if you want a peppy, fun car to race around at half the price of Motec.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by CBA

Love it. Thanks for sharing. Exactly what I needed. I think I saw something on here about pnutz being a Negative Nellie on Carbs. 😁. Find it interesting that 2 of the top engine builders around who happen to be on the west coast still recommend carbs if you want a peppy, fun car to race around at half the price of Motec.

Don't get me wrong. If you are having a pro install and tune them, by all means, go for it !

DIYers have a steep hill to climb. Check out the tech forum and see how many carb types are still around compared to CIS.

[CBA]

Originally Posted by pmax

Don't get me wrong. If you are having a pro install and tune them, by all means, go for it !

DIYers have a steep hill to climb. Check out the tech forum and see how many carb types are still around compared to CIS.

Pro install and tune for sure. There are some things that are better for the pros and not worth the headaches. What I leave for the pros: electrical, painting, engine building... I’m good at disassembly and washing my cars 😁.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by pmax

Such a pretty engine compartment.

That fan is fastidiously clean. What's the caveman beauty secret ?

why thank you for the kind words sir! it was media blasted with a very fine grit and clear coated is all. it does not look nearly as fetching these days a few thousand miles in unfortunately. but thank you again none the less.

[juanbenae]

the set pictured above I reacquired from jerry woods after having run them on my spec car for a couple seasons and trading them to his shop for a set of 46mm PMOs that they tuned during dyno set up when I rebuilt the race motor. the one's pictured were set up and dyno tuned for an early stock 3.oL per class rules (stock CIS pistons, cams and running pump gas, although installing the higher compression euro pistons was allowed which I did when the motor was redone).


moving them to my current motor that I built with hotter cams and 9.5/1 pistons it was a challenge to get them set up right learning as I went. I did not have the money to dyno tune it and it took the better part of 3-4 months of weekend work/learning to get them sorted out. there were days I was crying in my hands as I could not get it to lean out with it running rich across both circuits. im better for having gone through it and it runs very good now with it remaining a bit rich on the idle circuit, but right where it should be up high at 12-13 AF ratio making great power.

I will be moving in the coming weeks from sea level to points 4000' and beyond and the crying into my hands very well may ensue again while trying to get them working up there. I took copious notes during the 1st set up effort and I will likely study them again to address the thinner air at altitude and what tweaks I will try to address what im experiencing.


pnutz will be the 1st to tell you carbs are not set it and forget it type of fuel delivery system so you will be best served by learning about them from the outset or the experience may not be a good one. as a regularly scheduled example I have to adjust the air fuel screws some as the season fuel blends change (see you're in a cal metro area like me) from summer to winter and visa-versa to compensate. although that has as much to do with air temps as fuel blends.


im no carb "master", although raw might suggest im a master baiter but learning what makes them tick is a must IMO. max is correct to some extent in referring to we carb guys as cavemen and we are for sure in the minority (im real good with that). if you follow along regularly in the 911 tech forum at all I suggest that there are far more problems brought to light with the 40 year old CIS systems per capita than our carbs. we have to be semi-masters of our own domain because true carb masters are getting harder & harder to find in todays indy shops and running a car to the shop every time a bit of crud gets lodged in an idle jet would become a pain.

now for what raw will call a forum bromance, if you have any questions PM me and id be honored to share what's left of my carb knowledge not expressed above...

t

[faapgar]

A well tuned CIS system is a wonderful product.Most people just do not set them up correctly.A 3.0 at 10:1 CR with good exhaust and 964 cams makes 235-240 hp.Euro CIS only for big port or Carrera 3.0.All the others are worth less for sure.Ciao Fred

[juanbenae]

plus, they look cool as balls. when has anyone ever said that about a motor topped with a CIS system that didn't include an inner cooler?

to remain on topic I got $400 in late 2016 per my notes for a BP system that "worked when removed". did I mention packing it for shipping even partially disassembled was a tall field to mow?...

[CBA]

Cool as balls is the goal I'll probably just give my CIS to my mechanic as he wants to use it for parts and have him knock some dough off my build. Thanks for all the feedback and can't wait to get 13 mpg and being able to open the engine cover and have the cool factor. Practical no... cool yes. 46 PMO's going on a 3.2 SS , SSI's should be run and net around 225...think faagpar is being very optimistic in his claim.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Youse carburetor cavemen crack me up!

Why settle for just poor fuel mileage when you can have that, AND (thanks for the tip - just the - Toby!) azz whipping accelleration?! Turbo powaaahhhhhh, bros, turbo powaaahhhhhhh!!!!

Plus you get an engine bay that is full of old-school bling!

Yer welcome!

[juanbenae]

bold is the new green

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by CBA

Cool as balls is the goal I'll probably just give my CIS to my mechanic as he wants to use it for parts and have him knock some dough off my build. Thanks for all the feedback and can't wait to get 13 mpg and being able to open the engine cover and have the cool factor. Practical no... cool yes. 46 PMO's going on a 3.2 SS , SSI's should be run and net around 225...think faagpar is being very optimistic in his claim.

FaapTabulous Fred knows a thing or two about a thing or three about these cars!

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

bold is the new green

Damn straight!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matt Monson]

The boost boys will never know the anazing sound of the engine as a set of carbs crack open. The closed system and the impeller on the turbo really hinder the sound that is a flat six on full song.

[Racerbvd]

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

The boost boys will never know the anazing sound of the engine as a set of carbs crack open. The closed system and the impeller on the turbo really hinder the sound that is a flat six on full song.

that, THAT made me tear up some...

[pmax]

^^^ Must be one awesome butt dyno.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

^^^ Must be one awesome butt dyno.

It’s more than just a butt dyno. A set of Webers, without changing cams or pistons, will increase the power of an SC lump by 10%. Just that and a set of SSIs make an SC that can pull on a 3.2 Carrera and it’s FI.