Help to assess value: '85 ROW 3.2 coupe with potential title washing

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by TheRev

Definitely no apologies needed. Actually, we have significant savings. But I'm an engineer by training and so it is my nature to always plan for worst case scenarios. Part of the appeal of this car is that since I had budgeted $35k (pretax) for this purchase, at $29k I have a $6k cushion for unexpected expenses. I think the key is just trying to assess clearly what impact the salvage history will have should I want to sell the car in the future. The comments have been helpful at gauging that.

You and others have mentioned getting a PPI, and regarding what SCadaddle previously mentioned, make sure that your PPI includes a cylinder leakage test (aka - leakdown test) and a visual inspection of the exhaust side, head studs (lower rocker covers have to be removed). This will cost you more, but will be well worth it based upon reading your posts in this thread.

[Tom F2]

I don't understand where Carfax gets its information on this car. As far as I know, none of the US DMV's will recognize the WPOZZZ... VIN. They only recognize a USA VIN. So, how does the system track this? In Massachusetts, a gray market car gets a substitute title with a tag from the State Police. The car is duly titled, but not under its original, Euro VIN.

So my first thought is to doubt the Carfax information, and just judge the car on condition.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Tom F2

I don't understand where Carfax gets its information on this car. As far as I know, none of the US DMV's will recognize the WPOZZZ... VIN. They only recognize a USA VIN. So, how does the system track this? In Massachusetts, a gray market car gets a substitute title with a tag from the State Police. The car is duly titled, but not under its original, Euro VIN.

So my first thought is to doubt the Carfax information, and just judge the car on condition.

There’s nothing stopping anyone from entering this or any other VIN into the system and reporting anything on it, in which case Carfax would then have a record of it. I’m not sure what you mean by DMVs not recognizing a WPOZZZ VINed car. If you turn in a title to register a car you just bought, they will print out a title with that same VIN on it, regardless of the state I would think. The VIN isn’t going to constantly change when the car gets sold back and forth between different states that either recognize or not recognize the VIN. I think you’re getting this conflated with the fact that these models weren’t originally sold here, but they can still be titled here under their original VIN. Let’s not forget that they were ALL born with the WPOZZZ VINs, it’s just the US models that got reVINed before they got shipped to the US, which were then titled here with their new VIN.

It’s clear something major most likely happened to this car at some point in its life due to the missing side markers. You don’t normally change out both front fenders for a minor accident.

[TheRev]

Originally Posted by JMS935

It’s clear something major most likely happened to this car at some point in its life due to the missing side markers. You don’t normally change out both front fenders for a minor accident.

Based largely on that data-point right there, I decided this morning to pass. Clearly, the car had major accident repair for which the owner has no records or details. That's too big a risk for me to take at this stage in my life.

Thank you all VERY MUCH for your help. As always, Pelican forums have proven a great resource! That side marker spotting is a perfect case-in-point.

Back to looking for something better in my price range. In case anyone finds an SC-993 911 manual coupe for $35k or less in good condition, let me know! Thanks.

[1979-930]

^^^ Not that it matters now. But until you look at the car these are all assumptions.

As others are worried about the engine I was going to suggest getting the car on a lift and seeing how much of the front pan was replaced.
This car could have been totaled and pieced together for resale.
Or whoever repainted it just didn't like the side markers and filled them in. If I were trying to hide damage the side markers would be there.

[specialtyoneinc]

No such thing as a good condition 993 Coupe 6spd for $35k or less. Just a heads up. And definitely not a 964 Coupe 5spd. Finding a sorted SC will be your best bet if you want a coupe. Might be able to find a good driver 3.2 Carrera but those go quick at that price. GLWS

[TheRev]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

No such thing as a good condition 993 Coupe 6spd for $35k or less. Just a heads up. And definitely not a 964 Coupe 5spd. Finding a sorted SC will be your best bet if you want a coupe. Might be able to find a good driver 3.2 Carrera but those go quick at that price. GLWS

Yes, that is precisely what I've been seeing. I've been searching hard for the last couple months. I always include the 964's and 993's in my search strings, knowing it's a million to one shot. It's looking like I may have to choose b/w a sketchy-condition SC/3.2 coupe or a good-condition SC/3.2 Targa. I've always wanted a coupe, but a Targa might win simply because I can afford one that I won't worry about mechanically at that price.

[SCadaddle]

Just noticed this 82 SC that although high mileage appears to be very well sorted by an enthusiast. It was part of an email I received from Stoddards. Scroll past the 951 (944 Turbo). Top of your budget, who knows. If it's still available might be a good one to look at.

Meh, that Pelican won't let us link to a competitor. Should be easy to find, just look under cars for sale at Stoddards in Ohio. Looks like the car is in Dallas Texas.

[TheRev]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

Just noticed this 82 SC that although high mileage appears to be very well sorted by an enthusiast. It was part of an email I received from Stoddards. Scroll past the 951 (944 Turbo). Top of your budget, who knows. If it's still available might be a good one to look at.

Meh, that Pelican won't let us link to a competitor. Should be easy to find, just look under cars for sale at Stoddards in Ohio. Looks like the car is in Dallas Texas.

Thanks! That's a really cool car. I've contacted the seller. The price would have to come down some for me to jump, but it does sound like a really fun car to drive.

[TheRev]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

Just noticed this 82 SC that although high mileage appears to be very well sorted by an enthusiast. It was part of an email I received from Stoddards. Scroll past the 951 (944 Turbo). Top of your budget, who knows. If it's still available might be a good one to look at.

Meh, that Pelican won't let us link to a competitor. Should be easy to find, just look under cars for sale at Stoddards in Ohio. Looks like the car is in Dallas Texas.

Just heard back. Car sold months ago.

[sigchuck]

I need to check this forum more often. I’m local to this car too and apparently was the person that told the owner it was a euro market car.

I wish I had seen this thread before buying a carfax too! I tried researching the importer tovtry to determine when it was imported (thinking if in 1985, mileage is accurate, but if in 1990, probably not).

Apparently Neal Rayburn is/was based in LA and made slant nose kits at one time in the 1980s. I think he’s still around under the name NR Automotive. Just throwing this out there, but perhaps he imported it and made it a slant nose, which was later undone using US spec fenders. Obviously just speculation, but a possibility if the car is otherwise clean.

[TheRev]

Originally Posted by sigchuck

I need to check this forum more often. I’m local to this car too and apparently was the person that told the owner it was a euro market car.

I wish I had seen this thread before buying a carfax too! I tried researching the importer tovtry to determine when it was imported (thinking if in 1985, mileage is accurate, but if in 1990, probably not).

Apparently Neal Rayburn is/was based in LA and made slant nose kits at one time in the 1980s. I think he’s still around under the name NR Automotive. Just throwing this out there, but perhaps he imported it and made it a slant nose, which was later undone using US spec fenders. Obviously just speculation, but a possibility if the car is otherwise clean.

Definitely an interesting possibility! Unfortunately, the current owner has no paperwork with the car for anything done back then, including both the importing and whatever explains the salvage and title-wash. I encouraged him to get a good PPI, with particular attention to any work done on the body and on the pan underneath. That might explain some of what's up.

[sithot]

All good till you go to sell it. Buy a salvage title car, you own it. Texas was one of the patron states of odometer fraud too. 60 Minutes did an expose over 25 years ago. You can probably find it if interested. Documentation is your friend. Stories don't count.