Mortgage Worthy 965 3.6

[usera]

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1994-porsche-36-turbo-pts-signal-green/

I would love to bid on this beauty.

[Cobalt]

Signal green was a standard color and was not PTS no more so than my cobalt blue which were technically 93 colors. This car was sold by Rey Joseph to SAMike on rennlist back about 13 years ago IIRC for around $85k with 18k miles and as noted exported to the Netherlands where the rear bumper center section was replaced and the side repeaters were added. A gorgeous car in a rare and desirable color. On par miles and condition with my cobalt blue and IMO worth easily north of $300k. If you want one in this color you have limited opportunity.

These are truly special and rare cars and my info shows there are probably less than 200 US spec 3.6T's out of the 335 stock version imported remaining in the US. Only a handful in this condition.

Good luck to the seller and at any price someone is getting a special car.

I will be watching this as an idea whether I should up my insurance or not.

[msort81]

Originally Posted by usera

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1994-porsche-36-turbo-pts-signal-green/

I would love to bid on this beauty.

That would be a waste of time its P-Car market, bar some turds nothing ever sells and their 'sellers' are oblivious to market reality. Bar laughing at the meme worthy comments the site is a waste of time.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by msort81

That would be a waste of time its P-Car market, bar some turds nothing ever sells and their 'sellers' are oblivious to market reality. Bar laughing at the meme worthy comments the site is a waste of time.

Maybe so but the BS on BaT is far worse IMO. So much deception and inane comments from people without a clue.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Maybe so but the BS on BaT is far worse IMO. So much deception and inane comments from people without a clue.

Really? I don’t get that. I feel strongly that by the end of every auction that I’ve watched on BAT that the bidding public has a pretty solid idea of what they are bidding on. I think it’s a fantastic concept and result. From what I’ve noticed for every possibly wrong comment that I’ve seen there are 3 correcting it so all in all it comes out clean. So far on PCAR it’s been super shady with crazy affiliations and conflicts of interest with a lot of the sellers as in someone involved in founding and running pcar also owns the car, etc. I have high hopes for PCAR but to say they have had a rocky start would be a major understatement. So far most of the commentary is mainly a bunch of fluffers and cheer leaders versus actual important info.

[JMS935]

They’re fibbing on the hp, it’s not 408. Not even the 3.6 S was 408 hp stock. These are the pinnacle of the single turbo air cooled 911s, but imo they’re still priced higher than they should be based on their rarity. Almost 1500 of anything is not rare.

[msort81]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Maybe so but the BS on BaT is far worse IMO. So much deception and inane comments from people without a clue.

I agree there is some piffle at BAT, and the powers that be sometimes come down heavy on pertinent comments which can sway a positive result.
But no one at Pcar market has a clue, it's a truly laughable space seemingly populated by shill bidders and almost every comment is dealer double speak positivity. The recent Magnus Walker related comment was a great example.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Really? I don’t get that. I feel strongly that by the end of every auction that I’ve watched on BAT that the bidding public has a pretty solid idea of what they are bidding on. I think it’s a fantastic concept and result. From what I’ve noticed for every possibly wrong comment that I’ve seen there are 3 correcting it so all in all it comes out clean. So far on PCAR it’s been super shady with crazy affiliations and conflicts of interest with a lot of the sellers as in someone involved in founding and running pcar also owns the car, etc. I have high hopes for PCAR but to say they have had a rocky start would be a major understatement. So far most of the commentary is mainly a bunch of fluffers and cheer leaders versus actual important info.

I can site multiple cases where friends purchased cars off BaT that were completely & blatantly misrepresented and info clearly omitted or covered up by the seller. You don't need to know Porsche's or cars in general for anyone to see the issues. The sellers were out and out dishonest and lied through their teeth. When I tried to comment on the BS and shoddy paintwork my comments were withheld or I was scoffed at by the blowhards. Two 993 Turbos I knew of personally that should have brought far more I later found out through credible sources sold to friends of BaT. The fair reserve they requested BaT would not honor and the cars barely met reserve due to countless stupid comments about stupid things that had no impact on the value. The nonsense was laughable and caused a low bid but they covered the additional grand or two to make the car sell. As far as 964's there has been maybe a handful of all of them that where honestly represented the rest were junk with bad history and people just go crazy over them when I wouldn't touch them with your money. The turbos that have been on BaT I knew the complete history on and again they were pigs with lipstick and nobody could tell what they were looking at.

Originally Posted by JMS935

They’re fibbing on the hp, it’s not 408. Not even the 3.6 S was 408 hp stock. These are the pinnacle of the single turbo air cooled 911s, but imo they’re still priced higher than they should be based on their rarity. Almost 1500 of anything is not rare.

That is true the 94 was rated at 360BHP the 993TT was 408. In second gear a 3.6T will inch out a 993TT and with some simple bolt on mods my 94 will outpace a modded 993TT. These are still not fast cars by today's standards but a great driving experience. These are the last of the single turbo RWD Porsche's and far easier to control than the 930's

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Two 993 Turbos I knew of personally that should have brought far more I later found out through credible sources sold to friends of BaT. The fair reserve they requested BaT would not honor and the cars barely met reserve due to countless stupid comments about stupid things that had no impact on the value. The nonsense was laughable and caused a low bid but they covered the additional grand or two to make the car sell.

They had to agree to the reserve to list, it would be their fault if they thought they got screwed by the low reserve. BAT told me they wouldn't sell my car with a reserve, so I told them to forget it and sold the car quickly myself, easily above the reserve I originally requested. Its just business, why wouldn't they cover the difference if they stood to make it back plus more by doing so. They have always been upfront about this scenario.

[specialtyoneinc]

If your buying a car like this 964 3.6 Turbo sight unseen without having someone verifying condition etc... best of luck. Seems like a nice honest car but who knows with the limited info listed. I still don't understand why sellers don't put paint meter readings up when they are selling a super rare quarter million + air-cooled Porsche. I assume they don't plan on selling it on that site. Great advertising for $99 and after the auction they can work out a sale with a serious buyer if they find one.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

They had to agree to the reserve to list, it would be their fault if they thought they got screwed by the low reserve. BAT told me they wouldn't sell my car with a reserve, so I told them to forget it and sold the car quickly myself, easily above the reserve I originally requested. Its just business, why wouldn't they cover the difference if they stood to make it back plus more by doing so. They have always been upfront about this scenario.

Time limitations made BaT a quick option They took what they could get quickly but I have no doubt if it wasn't for the BS the car would have surpassed the reserve. Although I have seen lesser turbos with paint and double the miles on BaT with higher reserves sell for more money. Draw your own conclusions. I see it as manipulative game playing. We can have our differences of opinions. IMO all auctions are a joke no matter if it is Gooding, BaT or P-car so unless you have to have that one of one I would never play that game but they are fun to attend and watch people throw their easy money away.

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

If your buying a car like this 964 3.6 Turbo sight unseen without having someone verifying condition etc... best of luck. Seems like a nice honest car but who knows with the limited info listed. I still don't understand why sellers don't put paint meter readings up when they are selling a super rare quarter million + air-cooled Porsche. I assume they don't plan on selling it on that site. Great advertising for $99 and after the auction they can work out a sale with a serious buyer if they find one.

I won't argue with that assessment. At one time Ebay was the overprice it, get the forums to talk it up and draw in buyers now we have BaT and Pcar. I don't see much difference between the two although there appear to be nicer examples in general on P-car than BaT.

A lot could have happened to the signal green 3.6T since i lost contact with it but if you want one what does it matter if it has had some paintwork? So long as their is no accident damage being covered up which is usually apparent if you know what your looking at. There are 2 so if you want it buy it and have anything addressed that isn't to your liking. Most buying these cars in this condition and price level have no issue spending $300k and dropping another $50k into it to make it perfect. I have seen people spend more and then turn around and sell it at a loss without batting an eye.

[specialtyoneinc]

^ All auctions might be a joke to buy at, but definitely not to sell at since people like to throw easy money away

[911boost]

I remember when this car sold last time.

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

If your buying a car like this 964 3.6 Turbo sight unseen without having someone verifying condition etc... best of luck.

For me that goes for any car worth more than a couple of thousand. I see these cars on BAT going for, $40, $50K day in, day out and I don't get it. In a world of endless online scams, how do people throw down $50K on a car based on a few pictures and 4 paragraph description by a stranger, without laying eyes on it in person? Even with 1000 pics and videos, you'll never know the true condition of a car without driving it and seeing it up close and in person.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Vaive

For me that goes for any car worth more than a couple of thousand. I see these cars on BAT going for, $40, $50K day in, day out and I don't get it. In a world of endless online scams, how do people throw down $50K on a car based on a few pictures and 4 paragraph description by a stranger, without laying eyes on it in person? Even with 1000 pics and videos, you'll never know the true condition of a car without driving it and seeing it up close and in person.

I've never understood this either. People have endless anxiety about buying a car sight unseen, but will do it rather than get on a plane, or hire someone to go look at it. It's like buying a nice car and hiring cheap transport, people get cheap at the wrong times.
---Adam

[msort81]

now we have BaT and Pcar. I don't see much difference between the two although there appear to be nicer examples in general on P-car than BaT.

Regardless of higher prices the fundamental difference between Pcar and BAT is that BAT feels like a community, and the people who run it encourage that with judicious use of documented previous buys, re selling cars that have been across the block prior, and very goofy and sometimes wide of the mark bunch of commentators.

Pcar on the other hand just feels like an extension of a dealer, you're not there in person but it's the same lines from a sales guy who knows more than the three line sketch, but feels slimy.
They don't necessarily have better cars either, most of what seemingly sells are average turds, not the overpriced units discussed here.

"I can site multiple cases where friends purchased cars off BaT that were completely & blatantly misrepresented and info clearly omitted or covered up by the seller. You don't need to know Porsche's or cars in general for anyone to see the issues. The sellers were out and out dishonest and lied through their teeth."

Very curious about this can you post some of the links, that would be a good contribution to this sub forum, providing solid knowledge for people looking for a Porsche and considering something on BAT. I browse the site amazed by the prices, but they do curate some really interesting cars.

[ShopCat]

https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1140512-nightmare-buy-on-peecarmarket.html

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I've never understood this either. People have endless anxiety about buying a car sight unseen, but will do it rather than get on a plane, or hire someone to go look at it. It's like buying a nice car and hiring cheap transport, people get cheap at the wrong times.
---Adam

Was pretty much about to state the same! Just don't get that!

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1140512-nightmare-buy-on-peecarmarket.html

Should have done better due diligence. Much like viewing a drunk ..... hard to feel sympathetic

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I've never understood this either. People have endless anxiety about buying a car sight unseen, but will do it rather than get on a plane, or hire someone to go look at it. It's like buying a nice car and hiring cheap transport, people get cheap at the wrong times.
---Adam

These cars aren't that hard to figure out and educating yourself about the pros and cons is easier than ever with the internet. It isn't hard to do and yet I find people are perplexed. I find people become far to emotional about buying toys like these and become penny wise and dollar foolish which is a bad combination.

I purchased my 94 turbo and my 928GTS sight unseen although I did my diligence the best I could and took a chance. I was lucky both turned out to be pristine original paint cars in rare colors in immaculate condition.

As far as the BaT cars that were pure junk, do a search on several of the black 90's 964 C2's sold several months back. There was one that the owner insisted the clean car fax meant it was never in an accident had paintwork or leaked oil. It was pointed out that the rear quarter panel had been replaced since the tab was never removed by the body shop. It had been driven back and forth yet the odo never changed. He posted a video that clearly skipped over the torn seat bolster and passed right over the quarter that had the bad bodywork.

The owner claimed he knew cars. The quarter was not only replaced but it was raw unpainted metal underneath. The engine didn't leak while not running but you couldn't keep oil in it when it did. The car was a mess and IMO was blatantly deceptive long before the ending bid. I wish I know who was bidding on it before he purchased it. I would have saved him a lot of aggravation.

Don't get me started on the two week throw together widebody 90C2 with martini graphics that was worth more before the bodywork and sold for stupid money. The shrinking filler was apparent in the pictures and that car will only get worse with time.

Although in fairness the signal green car posted paint meter readings and clearly saying there was no paintwork is BS. With 10.5-11 mils there was paintwork. It may be very well done but it was done.