Originally Posted by Vaive (Post 10584736)

The best era of SNL is the one where you were a teenager. Porsches are kinda the same. The best one is the one you own.

Originally Posted by Vaive (Post 10584736)

The best era of SNL is the one where you were a teenager. Porsches are kinda the same. The best one is the one you own.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc (Post 10584478)

It reminded me of my dad's Mitsubishi 3000, it made noise, the gauges moved accordingly, but it felt very refined and sterile. I looked at one and drove it before I got the 993, and I was very underwhelmed. It was a sports car, but it didn't feel like a Porsche, not enough feel I guess. I'm sure you could mod one out and get it to feel like you wanted, but in stock form I was not sold, and didn't buy the car.

There needs to be a certain element of fear when driving a true sports car, somewhere in back of your mind that this might get away from me, with the 996 there was no fear.

---Adam

Originally Posted by Alan A (Post 10582930)

Find a coupe with a stick at that price that doesn’t have a ton of miles.

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 10584875)

So, that's a good to excellent specimen which the price will reflect.



The average 993 valuation, even just for the coupes, has been a flat line for 4-5 years.
Not sure where the "sky is falling" gloom of your original post is coming from.

Originally Posted by Tonger (Post 10584872)

The 996 GT3 fills your request in spades while in stock form. It feels more alive, communicative, and involving than any of the aircooleds that I've driven and is perfectly willing to scare you as well.

Pushing the needle even further, I'd say that the 996 aerokit look is maturing rather nicely, GT1 headlights and all....

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc (Post 10585037)

I would hope so, seeing that it was the top of the line when it was made. A decent GT3 still commands $75,000-125,000, so you'll stay pay quite a premium for the privilege. Same with the 996 Turbo, I've heard great things about those. Neither of those cars are what I was talking about driving. I drove a bone stock 996 Anniversary Edition and it was not very exciting. I then bought a stock 95 993, and it puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. There was no comparison, the 993 drove like a Porsche, the 996 drove like a Japanese sports car.

---Adam

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 10584875)

So, that's a good to excellent specimen which the price will reflect.

The average 993 valuation, even just for the coupes, has been a flat line for 4-5 years.
Not sure where the "sky is falling" gloom of your original post is coming from.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson (Post 10585014)

Ummm... this is Kansas’ thread. Alan never said the sky is falling.

Originally Posted by Alan A (Post 10585177)

Originally Posted by wayner (Post 10584635)

My opinion on this is gong to be controversial but its an interesting take.

When the 993 came out it was an awesome space ship of modern design (for an air cooled 911) and those wide hips were to die for.

Now that a wide hipped 997 is relatively easy to obtain, just based on sex appeal, the 993 now has pretty significant competition visually. Yes there are differences but they are in the same ballpark superficially.

Then there is the interior.
The 993 was pure luxury. Finally a porche that was the kind of Porche the doctors and lawyers thought they were buying when they bought a Porsche, as opposed to the earlier years with interiors more focused on being a raw sportscar. In my opinion Porsche attempted to make interiors very nice before that but the 930 was the first one to bring the car into the new era of luxury.

I feel the 996 Camry interior was a step back, but the 997 again does a great job in that area.

AIR COOLED
This is what all the 993 fuss is about, and while you can get as good or better suspension in the 997, you can't get air cooled.

So if we just focus on air cooldness and more classic 911 design, there are more classic 911 shapes further back in the lineage.

I'm seeing 993 owners moving to 997s or newer for all of the conveniences and comfort that the newer cars offer, and collecting a long hood or GT3 rather than sticking with the 993. Especially in the slightly younger market that wasn't there to appreciate a 993 in the showroom when it was new.

The overall 911 market got subdivided by the recognition that a long hood was a different era, and the later era was subdivided between the 993 versus everything that came before it, (and you could argue that a 964 was a half step in that direction but the poor stepsister of the 993 so really doesn't count if you can find a 993 instead,)

Here is my thought on that 993 era:
A 997 covers the modern conveniences
a long hood covers collectability

Time and options have left the 993 with a lot more competition than it had when the 996 was the newest alternative ( I'd have picked the 993 any day over a 996)
...and a GT3 has been well accepted as a car in that combined space despite its water cooling. For me the decision to get a GT3 or a turbo 997 over the 993 would be a no brainer and there are a lot of us out there thinking this now.

So the primary appeal of the 993 is that it was the last one and therefore the best of the air cooled.For that reason it will always be special, but, there used to be a lot more reasons to want a 993

Originally Posted by Tonger (Post 10585145)

Not really, right now the 996 GT3's are trading hands for upper 60's - almost 993 kind of money. The production numbers are a lot smaller than for the 993's. Get one now while you still can.

Air cooled owners had a 'water allergy' when the 996 was introduced and looked for reasons not to like it - some were legit and some were less so. Now that the performance envelope of the water cooled cars has so far eclipsed that of the air cooleds, people are starting to be a little less haughty about the lowly 996. Sure there was cost cutting on the interior and the front end was originally shared with the Boxster. But with a price tag similar to a 993, the GT3's got a legit motorsports type Mezger that will rev to 8k...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2005-porsche-911-gt3-6/


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1567900357.jpg

Originally Posted by Kansas (Post 10585372)

I don't think I've ever seen a more gutless, vanilla looking Porsche than this one. And I include all Porsche ever made, even a 914.

Originally Posted by Kansas (Post 10585372)

I don't think I've ever seen a more gutless, vanilla looking Porsche than this one. And I include all Porsche ever made, even a 914.

Originally Posted by Kansas (Post 10585369)

I think you make some fairly good points. And I'm inclined to agree with you on some of them. Back in 2012, I actually posted on the 993 Rennslist forum how the 997 would replace the 993 in terms of desirability due to similar styling cues. I got quite the outrage from the 993 fans. And I didn't understand the outrage until I finally ended up owning a 993 for the first time last year. The Porsche that I sold in order to purchase the 993, was a 997. And I know several other 997 owners that did the exact same thing. There is simply no comparison. Although the 997 is a much better looking car than than the 996, it still does not compare in styling to the 993. It is a much larger car... more of a touring type aston martin car, rather than a true sports car. It does not have the classic upright windshield stance as all the other classic aircooled 911s, nor the lower rear end stance. It is rather pedestrian looking to be quite honest. The 993's styling is a work of art. It is truly one of the most beautiful sports cars ever made. And it still has that solid, hewn-out-of-stone feel that the water-cooled 911s will NEVER have. The driving feel of the 997 is every bit as sterile as the 996. Don't get me wrong, it is a f'n rocket, but boring as hell to drive compared to the 993. So I totally disagree with your assessment that the 997 somehow replaced 993 in terms of desirability. Keep in mind that during the 993's peak value, the 997 was already 10 years old. That didn't seem to affect 993 desirability much.

Originally Posted by wayner (Post 10585632)

(You make some good points as well, and Im glad that you and I can have this non mud slinging discussion :-)

I find it interesting comparing your assessment of a 993 and mine simply because we each arrived at a 993 experience from almost opposite directions. At the core are the things that we have found common ground on, and the differences can be explained by our personal biases based on past experience.

Where you find a 993 raw and visceral, I find it less so for obvious reasons when you see what I drive. But that doesn't make either of us right or wrong, adn its what I like most about experiencing other peoples cars. We have so much common ground, and Im all-out collecting experiences. So, one day maybe we will meet up and swap cars or at least passenger seats for a romp through the hills adn both come back to discuss over a beer if we can get rid of our **** eating grins. I think even Rawknees could excuse the lack of turbo one enough to enjoy the banter over a beer :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1567955624.jpg

Originally Posted by Vaive (Post 10586530)

6 hours to go in this auction and only 10 comments. Usually there are 10 comments the first hour with these things.

I know, Cab. But still...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-porsche-911-carrera-cabriolet-30/

Originally Posted by trader220 (Post 10586566)

Its a cab, they dont sell well. The wheels kill the car too. Sure they're easily changed but it wont bring in a lot of lookers and comments since the car doesn't show well.

Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 10586626)

I probably wouldn't own a Cab if it were free.
I have one convertible car now because I thought I would like it. I don't. Only reason it's not sold is I'm giving it to my son for his first car.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson (Post 10586730)

You really need to try a targa. I was talking to some guy about selling mine, so I jumped it and took it for a cruise Saturday afternoon. It really is the most fantastic convertible design ever. The lack of wind buffering while still being open to the sky is just wonderful.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson (Post 10586730)

You really need to try a targa. I was talking to some guy about selling mine, so I jumped it and took it for a cruise Saturday afternoon. It really is the most fantastic convertible design ever. The lack of wind buffering while still being open to the sky is just wonderful.

Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 10586821)

I would probably like a targa. I like the look and added brightwork. I don't need or want another hot rod.
I actually don't want any of my projects right now. My son's racing is burning me out. Next stop Supernats in Vegas :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 10586626)

I probably wouldn't own a Cab if it were free.
I have one convertible car now because I thought I would like it. I don't. Only reason it's not sold is I'm giving it to my son for his first car.

Originally Posted by G450X (Post 10587829)

I am thinking about a convertible (964/993 or a S54 M Roadster due to prices) as a week end “explorer/cruiser” weekend trip car with my wife after I retire.

Please explain your dislikes of owning a cab (.

Originally Posted by touringteg (Post 10587836)

Exactly what you are talking about above is why some have moved on from older cars. People are strapped for time and there are less people that want to work on older cars or spend time on a project. Older cars tend to need more TLC.

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo (Post 10584407)

You must not have known too many poor people - I have and the majority do no such thing.

Originally Posted by trader220 (Post 10582753)

Nervous? If you buy a nice driver quality 996 and pay low $20's what's there to be nervous about? You're not going to wake up one day anytime soon and find out its a $10k car.

Originally Posted by McLovin (Post 10589413)

Haha, there's lots of 996 owners that wake up one day, turn the key, and find out their $23K 996 is suddenly a $10K car.

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 10589726)

WTH is going on ?

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1995-porsche-911/

Originally Posted by McLovin (Post 10589413)

Haha, there's lots of 996 owners that wake up one day, turn the key, and find out their $23K 996 is suddenly a $10K car.

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 10589726)

WTH is going on ?

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1995-porsche-911/

Originally Posted by Vaive (Post 10589423)

Which could be easily alleviated by spending $2500 to do the IMS upgrade. I will never understand people who own 996s and don't do this.