993s values declining even further?

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Vaive

With 1 exception, every owner of an air cooled I spoke to when looking to buy one was and "older guy" who was getting rid of it because he a) didn't drive it anymore, b) was too old for it and/or health reasons or c) was downsizing and selling all his garage "stuff" before moving into a condo.

Remember "here" is not representative of the world at large.

Except for the last category, those are the "older guys" cashing in on 2-3x their original cost.

There are plenty of new "older guys" reaching peak earnings who can easily buy these as a hobby. What's $40K these days, a nice depreciating family sedan to those who worry about costs, not even counting those who don't at this level of spending ?

[Alan A]

It’s not just Porkers. I have a different - older - marque in addition to the 911. Actually I’ve had a bunch, but I digress.

At just the right side of 50 I’m one of the youngest owners. Every year there’s an annual gathering and a few more owners have aged out or shuffled off the mortal coil. It’s something we talk about every year and it gets more pertinent every year.

There’s a model T club near me in NY. I remember going to a show a few years ago where there were 15 of them in a row. All beautiful - immaculate - and all practically worthless. The median age of the owners had to be 85. That’s the specter that looms over all of us...

Perhaps I should go buy a VR4 while I still can

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by pmax

Except for the last category, those are the "older guys" cashing in on 2-3x their original cost.

There are plenty of new "older guys" reaching peak earnings who can easily buy these as a hobby. What's $40K these days, a nice depreciating family sedan to those who worry about costs, not even counting those who don't at this level of spending ?

Typically people who have enough money to not blink at $40K, are also the people who don't squander $40K on things without thinking about it.

I read an interesting article a few years ago about the inverse correlation between one's income and the price one pays for cars. Putting aside the gazilioniares who buy $1M Bugattis and things like that, and excluding the ultra cheap $2000 junkers, basically the more income you have the cheaper the car you buy. All those people driving $60K new BMWs, are buying them on credit and are really stretching. On the other hand, people who could write a $60K check for that BMW, drive a $30K Camry. Remember $30K millionaires? They never really went away, they just became $60K millionaires with inflation

Rich people don't typically get rich by making stupid financial decisions like paying a lot of money for an instantly depreciating asset. Poor people stay poor because all they do is make stupid financial decisions.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Vaive

Typically people who have enough money to not blink at $40K, are also the people who don't squander $40K on things without thinking about it.

I read an interesting article a few years ago about the inverse correlation between one's income and the price one pays for cars. Putting aside the gazilioniares who buy $1M Bugattis and things like that, and excluding the ultra cheap $2000 junkers, basically the more income you have the cheaper the car you buy. All those people driving $60K new BMWs, are buying them on credit and are really stretching. On the other hand, people who could write a $60K check for that BMW, drive a $30K Camry. Remember $30K millionaires? They never really went away, they just became $60K millionaires with inflation

Rich people don't typically get rich by making stupid financial decisions like paying a lot of money for an instantly depreciating asset. Poor people stay poor because all they do is make stupid financial decisions.

You're missing the picture.

Discounting the flipper types, the new "older guys" buying these are not making a financial decision. As one of them, I wasn't.

Of course, if their hobby cars double or triple in value, many of these "older guys" will sell them as the ones in your categories 1) and 2) did.

[Matt Monson]

I can’t believe Max is arguing that middle aged is older. Hurricanes in Alabama I tell you.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I can’t believe Max is arguing that middle aged is older. Hurricanes in Alabama I tell you.

I read Vaive as a "young" dude.

[David Borden]

Originally Posted by Vaive

Typically people who have enough money to not blink at $40K, are also the people who don't squander $40K on things without thinking about it.

...

Rich people don't typically get rich by making stupid financial decisions like paying a lot of money for an instantly depreciating asset. Poor people stay poor because all they do is make stupid financial decisions.

Sometimes things are not as they seem. The book The Millionaire Next Door, talks about this. It's a great read with some interesting data.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by David Borden

Sometimes things are not as they seem. The book The Millionaire Next Door, talks about this. It's a great read with some interesting data.

Kinda funny. That book is over 20 years old. Back when a million dollars was worth something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matt Monson]

To people with real money $40k is a new watch or a shopping spree for the wife.

[robertmark]

Originally Posted by Vaive

Typically people who have enough money to not blink at $40K, are also the people who don't squander $40K on things without thinking about it.

I read an interesting article a few years ago about the inverse correlation between one's income and the price one pays for cars. Putting aside the gazilioniares who buy $1M Bugattis and things like that, and excluding the ultra cheap $2000 junkers, basically the more income you have the cheaper the car you buy. All those people driving $60K new BMWs, are buying them on credit and are really stretching. On the other hand, people who could write a $60K check for that BMW, drive a $30K Camry. Remember $30K millionaires? They never really went away, they just became $60K millionaires with inflation

Rich people don't typically get rich by making stupid financial decisions like paying a lot of money for an instantly depreciating asset. Poor people stay poor because all they do is make stupid financial decisions.

You nailed it, with the exception poor people tend to blame their financial situation on everybody else's actions, not their own!

[trader220]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

well a turbo was mentioned and those aren't low $20s

Agreed but you mentioned just a plain old 996..

There is a bit more risk in the tt but not a whole lot more and the principle remains intact on those cars assuming one didn't grossly over pay. They're not going to be $30k cars anytime soon IMO.

[black_falcon]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Here is what I can tell you about the 993, from personal experience. It's the best driving Porsche I've ever driven, and I've driven a lot. It leaves you wanting nothing, unlike the 911's that came before and the abysmal failure that was the 996. A friend who works for Porsche says the joke there is that the 996 was the car the accountants designed.


---Adam

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by pmax

I read Vaive as a "young" dude.

Young-ish

[Kansas]

My very first impression of the 996 when I first drove one back in 2010, was how much it felt like my wife's Honda Accord. I kid you not.

[Tonger]

Originally Posted by Kansas

My very first impression of the 996 when I first drove one back in 2010, was how much it felt like my wife's Honda Accord. I kid you not.

Drive the GT3, it is no Honda. There’s a reason that even the hard core air cooled guys are adding them.

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by Kansas

My very first impression of the 996 when I first drove one back in 2010, was how much it felt like my wife's Honda Accord. I kid you not.

I've owned an Accord. And I've owned a 996. And I think you have to be kidding. I get that in order to sit at the Porsche cool kid table, you have to hate the 996. But come on.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by robertmark

You nailed it, with the exception poor people tend to blame their financial situation on everybody else's actions, not their own!

You must not have known too many poor people - I have and the majority do no such thing.

[Kansas]

Originally Posted by Vaive

I've owned an Accord. And I've owned a 996. And I think you have to be kidding. I get that in order to sit at the Porsche cool kid table, you have to hate the 996. But come on.

You’re basically right, I get it. I don’t think it helped that my first ride was in a tiptronic. But I shouldn’t bag on the 996. It’ll take my 993 on the track every day of the week.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Kansas

My very first impression of the 996 when I first drove one back in 2010, was how much it felt like my wife's Honda Accord. I kid you not.

It reminded me of my dad's Mitsubishi 3000, it made noise, the gauges moved accordingly, but it felt very refined and sterile. I looked at one and drove it before I got the 993, and I was very underwhelmed. It was a sports car, but it didn't feel like a Porsche, not enough feel I guess. I'm sure you could mod one out and get it to feel like you wanted, but in stock form I was not sold, and didn't buy the car.

There needs to be a certain element of fear when driving a true sports car, somewhere in back of your mind that this might get away from me, with the 996 there was no fear.

---Adam

[wayner]

My opinion on this is gong to be controversial but its an interesting take.

When the 993 came out it was an awesome space ship of modern design (for an air cooled 911) and those wide hips were to die for.

Now that a wide hipped 997 is relatively easy to obtain, just based on sex appeal, the 993 now has pretty significant competition visually. Yes there are differences but they are in the same ballpark superficially.

Then there is the interior.
The 993 was pure luxury. Finally a porche that was the kind of Porche the doctors and lawyers thought they were buying when they bought a Porsche, as opposed to the earlier years with interiors more focused on being a raw sportscar. In my opinion Porsche attempted to make interiors very nice before that but the 930 was the first one to bring the car into the new era of luxury.

I feel the 996 Camry interior was a step back, but the 997 again does a great job in that area.

AIR COOLED
This is what all the 993 fuss is about, and while you can get as good or better suspension in the 997, you can't get air cooled.

So if we just focus on air cooldness and more classic 911 design, there are more classic 911 shapes further back in the lineage.

I'm seeing 993 owners moving to 997s or newer for all of the conveniences and comfort that the newer cars offer, and collecting a long hood or GT3 rather than sticking with the 993. Especially in the slightly younger market that wasn't there to appreciate a 993 in the showroom when it was new.

The overall 911 market got subdivided by the recognition that a long hood was a different era, and the later era was subdivided between the 993 versus everything that came before it, (and you could argue that a 964 was a half step in that direction but the poor stepsister of the 993 so really doesn't count if you can find a 993 instead,)

Here is my thought on that 993 era:
A 997 covers the modern conveniences
a long hood covers collectability

Time and options have left the 993 with a lot more competition than it had when the 996 was the newest alternative ( I'd have picked the 993 any day over a 996)
...and a GT3 has been well accepted as a car in that combined space despite its water cooling. For me the decision to get a GT3 or a turbo 997 over the 993 would be a no brainer and there are a lot of us out there thinking this now.

So the primary appeal of the 993 is that it was the last one and therefore the best of the air cooled.For that reason it will always be special, but, there used to be a lot more reasons to want a 993